The ski industry is phasing out ski wax with PFAS. Now all the ski waxes are 'fluoro free'. Is PTFE bike chain lube next?

PTFE is not a PFAS

Barry

The EPA had PTFE in the PFAS family a couple years ago.

https://comptox.epa.gov/dashboard/ch...sts/PFASSTRUCT

Funny it’s not there now. But unlike Viton and others, PTFE still uses fluorinated high temperature surfactants to manufacture it. There is a limit so it must be assumed it is below the limit.

PTFE production, and the chemicals used to make it - including PFOS - is a huge chunk of the problem. The production and the breakdown of the product are the issues.

I’m not a chemist, rather a controls engineer, that works in this sector from time to time - fairly often actually.

Much of our effort is spent fixing the emissions issues from existing facilities or trying to make new facilities free from PFOS emissions.

So far - it’s not worked.

The production facilities have been moved, rebranded, promises made, 100’s of millions in equipment installed - emission and downstream pollution persist.

So that jar of lube with PTFE may not be an issue itself, but the production is, and will continue to be an issue.

That being said - it’s in a wide array of products across many markets. As are many PFOS based chemicals. Even many “environmentally friendly” products contain PTFE based products or will - like car batteries.

Plastics, textiles, lubes/non stick, films…

Think how much PTFE tape is used for plumbing.

Short answer is yes.

However, not much at all in the scheme of things. IMO the goal shouldn't be eliminating various chemicals, but to use them wisely and judiciously, making sure the benefit warrants the consequences.

Regardless of whether PTFE is a type of PFA, it does contribute to environmental microplastic pollution, which is also an issue.

The main issue is how we use it- chain lube is 'total loss' lubrication. All of the PTFE powder you mix into your chain wax, will end up on the road or in the dirt. The other issue is the permanence of these chemicals. How confident are we that they are truly inert and harmless?

The first question should be why chain wax even needs PTFE in the first place.

A lot of ingredients, like Teflon, sound good and differentiate the product. There is no large reason to use them in applications like chain lube.

But chain lube is forest for the trees. It is the tiniest segment of an enormous market of terrible chemicals that are found almost everywhere now. Ban it, keep it - won't change anything.

Except in the long run, the consequences accumulate indefinitely don’t they?

Agree with this but I will still do what I can to avoid adding to the problem even in tiny ways.

And that's a good thing. I was just answering the question as to whether bike lubes contribute in any meaningful way.

Yes, but I prefer to look at this as part of a bigger picture. IMO worrying about the PTFE in the lubes you use is comparable to looking to your penny jar when the mortgage comes due.

FTIW I don't use any PTFEs in my chain lube or anywhere else on my bikes. Not because I'm a better person, but because I don't consider PTFE lubes well suited for the application.

While it is true that polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) is part of the class of materials call perfluoroalkyl (or polyfluoroalkyl) substances (PFAS) because has multilply fluorines attached to an alkyl backbone, PTFE is not a problem substance. Yes, it is a “forever chemical” because it doesn’t react with much of anything. It is inert to almost all other chemicals and is stable to temperatures that aren’t usually encountered under normal conditons. In other words, it is chemically inactive and won’t cause the problems that other PFAS chemicals can because they are reactive.

TL;dr: It’s not a problem.

PTFE used in bicycle lubricants is not the problem. Even the production of solid PTFE isn’t all that difficult nor polluting. Getting the PTFE to stick to other substances is where the PFAS problem rears its ugly head. Even that isn’t all that large a problem. But PFA materials are used in a lot of other applications from waterproofing to fabric treatments to food storage to fire fighting foam which is how the material gets a much wider distribution. The PTFE in chain lube is a tiny in an ocean of other applications and, as noted above, it isn’t reactive even when used in chain lube.

What about when tiny ptfe polymer chains get all embedded in yer liver?

Unless the PTFE is physically embedded in your liver, there is no mechanism for it to get there. Because PTFE is inert, it isn’t digested. It passes through the alimentary canal unchanged.

am I a bad person if I like Gore-Tex coats and gloves etc ?