Steel Frame Spacing?
 

I know you can cold set a 126mm frame spacing to a 130mm frame spacing, but can you cold set a 130mm frame spacing to a 126mm spacing?? It's a steel frameset. Thank you

Back when they first came out with 130 OLD spacing, some steel bikes were spaced at 128 OLD so you could run 126 or 130 OLD wheels. There were bikes set at 123 OLD so that you could run 120 OLD or 126 OLD wheels. The point is that steel is pretty forgiving stuff. I'd just add a 1 mm spacer to either side of your wheel to set it at 128 OLD and just ride the bike.

Certainly you can. But you probably don't need too. The springiness of the steel stays will draw in as you close the QR or tighten the nut on the axle. If you want the drops to be more perfectly in the same plane then you could take the time and trouble to adjust them, but I don't think you absolutely need to. Unless perhaps you still use one of the older QR's that didn't clamp well. IMO.

Simpler thing to do might be to just put spacers on either side of the hub and have a longer axle in the hub.

"Cold Setting' a frame entails more than just bending the rear triangle a bit.. the Dropouts must also be reset to be aligned with the Axle, and the Reset must be even, side to side, or the bike will not track correctly.

yes, it can be done, but if Any parameters are overlooked, the results won't be good.

and simply "clamping the axle down more" overlooks just about every parameter other than getting the wheel mounted in the frame.

Resetting the frame to 130 is not difficult if you use the right tools. Dealing with getting 130 axles into 126 dropouts is a pain.

Bike shops will do it for a reasonable fee.

Why would do you want to change the 130 dropout to 126? It's much better to put a longer threaded axle into the 126mm rear hub in question, and turn it into a 130mm rear hub, and re-true the wheel. That way you can reduce the dishing as well.

Maybe you have an old Mavic hub that you want to use that doesn't have the ability to respace. Maybe you want to use the wheelset with another bike that can't be set to 130. Maybe you like keeping things stock. Maybe you're concerned that a longer axle, regardless of where the cones are, is still weaker than a shorter axle.

I did this in 2023 when I bought a '91 Bottecchia.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e3d3859754.jpg
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I am far from a being a talented, efficient mechanic. However, I have cold set 3 different steel frames using RJ the Bike Guy's method, including the DIY tools. from youtube. Two of the settings came out just fine with no further adjustments, the third needed some minor adjustment to the dropouts alignment, for which I also used a RJ DIY tool. It also came out fine after the adjustment. That was a frame spread from 120mm to 130mm. I did this to frames that, while I would be disappointed, I would not be highly upset if the process caused damage, and I did it slowly with a lot of visual checking while doing the spreading. Be aware, damage CAN be done.
I have never narrowed the rear spread. In that case, I would likely just use spacers to to take up the space. Main reason for doing the spreading, Due to arthritis in my hands, I have issues with spreading the rear manually to get wheels into the drops.

assuming the frame is welded and aligned perfectly, sure. It would be interesting to see just how well aligned most frames are

Dropout spreading is an alignment process.

+1


Not sure if this will be of help to the OP but when I was researching cold setting and frame alignment online, I didn't find a lot of photographic intel of the process.


If I could recommend, if you have the opportunity to go to a frame builder, this may be the best route. I've enclosed a few photos of a vintage DeRosa being cold set from 126mm to 130mm and along with the fork blades being checked for alignment. It's careful work to say the least!


Photos taken at Jamie Swan's shop in Centerport, LI.



https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e2b23c844a.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c3c5ee0e6d.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dd51ce4577.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...02d52016a1.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1f66a72bca.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5ed7169458.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7421f04322.jpg

Going to a frame builder to spread the frame is like going to the ER for a paper cut.

I had my replacement Fuji Pro frame reset from 126 to 120 when I was racing. The reason? My previous Pro (120) broke two months before my head injury. Fuji built me another at the new standard, 126. I received it in February. Decided to race another season. Post head injury. Life was overwhelming. The principal of KISS, keep it simple, stupid was going to be my mantra for much of the next decade. 120 allowed me to use all my existing wheels and freewheels.

So one of the sweetest frames to come from Fuji (between runs, not quite like either last year's or the next), beautiful brazing and so straight the (excellent) mechanic who was going to cold set it for me measured it up, then just stood back and admired it. And proceeded to do the sacrilege of squeezing the spacing. It served me well. 5k and a full racing season. Finished in the field at a 113 mile Cat 1,2 race that September as my last big race before I dove into life after the head injury and the real world.

All this to say - spacing isn't sacred. Yes, it should be done carefully and withing the limits of that bike, its tubing and its experience but sometimes there are good reasons to adjust spacings to "odd" of "wrong" numbers. And spacings that are good fits with the wheels are a joy. Ones that require force every wheel change get (IMO) very old fast. Now, if that frame is C&V cherry and going to be sold/passed on, I might refrain from jumping in and making better for me now. But if its a keeper, that spacing is what I want, frame allowing.

I ride 6 bikes with 3 different spacings. Two fix gears at 120. One of those is an '83 Trek I might have squeezed down from 126. A fix gear and two 7-speeds at 126. And a 9-speed at 130. The 126 fix gear? My Peter Mooney, built at 120 just after I finished racing so I could use all those wheels - still very much in the KISS mode. SunTour FWs had just gone Ultra 6 so there was no penalty. 7-speed came out and in 1990 I had it spread to 126. 2017 I set it up as a crazy fix gear, triple, 3 cogs on a flip-flop fix gear hub that I spaced to 126 and dished a touch to get all three chainlines right. Easy with the additional spacers. Those 6 bikes have 120k miles under my legs. Enough to justify making wheel changes easy.

Oh I don’t know about that, some people just don’t have the means to feel comfortable to do this themselves. Especially on a high frame. Most people only have a bike, and don’t want to take on the risk of there treasured rosebud.

If you are a symphony musician, it could be just plain smart. If I owned that DeRosa, I'd call that money well spent. Now for my '83 Trek, I don't remember but if I did it, it was at home and I paid (or knew) a mechanic to put the dropout tools on it. My Mooney got done at a good but not high end bike shop. Now I know Dave Levy at TiCycles and it is fun to visit him, so my bikes get babied. Why not?

I didn't mean it must be DIY, but this is standard bike shops stuff, not requiring a specialist and an alignment table. Talk about overpaying!.

I don’t this is a standard bike shop thing any more, thirty years it was.

The second to last image is the step most people overlook.

i lucked out and found a set of dropout gauges for $50 a while back... they make a quick, but tough task go easily.
i was using two solid CroMo BMX rear axles, two sections of water pipe, and various nuts, before finding the Park FFG-2 gauges.

A cheap DIY dropout tool is a single 10mm rear axle and two nuts. Fit the axle onto one dropout with the two nuts locking it in and it pointing at the opposite dropout, but not quite touching it. Bend the axle until it points at the center of the other dropout. Remove, flip it over and do the same thing on the other side. Just as accurate as the full sized tool.

The same axle works well as a hanger straightener by threading into the hanger and making it parallel to the hub axle.

That can work, however, this method can bend the axel to misleading results with the dropouts It’s much better to use the correct tools, for both alignments.

You forgot one also needs to use fender washers so the dropout doesn’t deform.

You are wrong.

The good pro tool has end the size of axle bolts, not fender washers.
An axle is not going to bend from the modest pressure it takes to straighten a dropout.


Where do people get these wacky opinions? Not working on bikes.

It’s an easy process if you have the alignment gauges and experience with them. If I were the OP, I would look around for an older, established bike shop. (Yes, I know this is a rarity.) They are more likely to have the tools and an understanding of how to use them.

I once bought a Paletti frame that had been hanging on a wall for a couple years. When I was assembling it at home I found it had been dropped and the rear triangle was offset by an inch to one side. However, since I’d worked on a couple frames in shops, it was relatively easy for me to pull the stays back into alignment by hand, verifying that they were even with a string and ruler. The bike rode just fine afterwards.

I would opine that if you can use a string to get rid of a full inch of misalignment, a specific alignment gauge just to move the stay 2mm is unnecessary.

Yes axels do bend when doing that performance with or without fender washers.

Yer just trolling. I’ve done that method as you suggested, without the washers one can deform the dropout. Even RJ mentions this.