I wonder whether Grumpus ever actually tried an indexed Shimano downtube shifter. IME, it's as good as mechanical shifting ever got, especially combined with the foolproof left friction shifter.

I have a bike with it and it is total crap. It is some sort of Suntour. The cassette doesn't have ramps on it so the chain didn't just move. With friction you would overshift slightly then trim it and you did this subconsciously. With indexed you would hear/feel the click then stop and the chain would clang a few times and then shift.

It wasn't me that wrote that, I had Ultegra SL-6400 DT shifters on a couple of bikes, they worked very well.

Sorry! Dammit! It was Zakster.

Suntour downtune indexed shifters: that explains it. Shimano's indexed DT shifters were far better engineered than Suntour's, which is why Suntour's were on the market for only a few seasons and why Kontact and I both assumed you were badmouthing the far more common SIS system.

So it's not surprising that you have that opinion. Could be worse, though---you could have first-generation Campy indexing levers.

Something is wrong with your bike. Suntour index on unramped freewheels shifts perfect fine.

That ship sailed a long time ago. I set it up for my daughter with more modern components. It was one of the old Cannondales that had 128mm spacing so it could take either old 126 style or the newer 130 that was coming out.

It can work accurately and reliably, but compared to a modern mechanical indexed system it's closer to friction shifting, but with clicks. Hyperglide and similar has spoiled us with the ability to shift multiple sprockets under load and almost silently, someone who is used to that is probably going to find Accushift a bit primitive.

I have been using Accushift on road and MTBs since 1988. That is simply not true.

The shop I worked for 1990 to 1995 pumped out tons of Accushft MTBs and noone ever complained about them not shifting. Trek and Giant had many models.

I think maybe you missed my point - I said Accushift works fine, it's just less buttery-smooth than newer systems. I never owned an Accushift bike, only test-riding bikes I was setting up; maybe if I was more accustomed to them I would think they were slicker, but maybe because you are accustomed to them you don't notice so much difference. Different feel, different technique, different experience.
I was surprised how different my Suntour Vx feels running on modern SRAM cassette and chain, I would rather it was a bit more positive rather than just running smoothly wherever I put the shifter - I used Suntour New Winner freewheels and Sedisport chain back then, and I think I prefer that feel, but I'm not in any hurry to go back to freewheel hubs.

I think if you had ever worked on a Rapidfire bike you might discover that there doesn't need to be any feel or technique to Accushift. Downtube levers may allow you to interfere with shifting, but when the shifter takes the way the rider moves the lever out of the equation, they just shift when clicked.


Long term, Accushft seems to not wear out its detent accuracy over time, so that is a small advantage. But Suntour is gone, so that's mostly academic. I just think no one should avoid Accushift as it it is anything but full indexing.

I’m not a fan of the Accuset. Used them back then downtube and thumbies, used them recently on the downtube. They seem to install just fine, work well on the stand, but when the rubber meets the road I’d rather use the friction shifters, or power shifters.

Too many ghost shifts.

That was the bottom line. I could friction shift as well or better. I still can. When I put a 10sp modern wheel (well, modern is getting relative. It was already 20 years ago) on a 6/7sp 126 spaced bike the shifting was super smooth and quick. And because there are 10 cogs in the space of 6 or 7, you weren't between gears very often so none of that clang, clang, clang. Indexed shifting works so well now because of the ramps on the cogs. The chain just rides up and down on them and doesn't make noise, it always engages. And. it works just as well with friction shifters as it does with indexed. The thing was, they were invented to make indexed work better so the new cassettes were always sold with indexed systems.

I set up the last bike I had like this on my trainer just a few weeks ago, but I can still put the 10sp wheel on it when I take it off the trainer. I just have to make sure the brakes work. I haven't been on it in years outside. I posted a pic of it in this thread.

For 20 mile or so rides w/o significant elevation changes I love them. Have a couple outfitted.

That's the thing, in that position I could see them since they are in a position where you actually ride. It's on the drops that I don't understand.

I've worked on Rapidfire since it was new, but only used it (Rapidfire Plus) on my bikes since about 2000.
At the risk of repetition: Accushift works - you click, it shifts, no problem, I didn't suggest otherwise, I don't know why you'd think I did. Or am I mistaken? Please show me where I wrote otherwise.

I must have misunderstood what you meant by this:

"closer to friction shifting, but with clicks"

Ah OK. I thought I was clear that someone who is used to modern indexed shifting might find Accushift a bit clunky by comparison, simply because HG (and similar) is so smooth (too smooth even, with 1970s Suntour derailleurs and shifters).