Tube patch question
03-19-26 | 05:05 AM
#26
03-19-26 | 06:35 AM
#27
Old fart
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26,306
Likes: 5,211
From: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Bike shops don't patch punctured tubes because the labor cost of doing so exceeds the cost (parts plus labor) of simply replacing the tube. But for a co-op with volunteer labor, patching is less costly.
03-19-26 | 08:54 AM
#28
Mad bike riding scientist
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,127
Likes: 6,159
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Too much care and feeding for 10 bikes plus my wife’s 5. Tubeless also offends my sense of chemistry. How does something “dry up” inside an impermeable container? The liquid carrier that is “drying up” is not something that really evaporates so where is it going? More importantly, where is the mass of that liquid carrier that dries up constantly going?
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Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
03-19-26 | 08:55 AM
#29
Mad bike riding scientist
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,127
Likes: 6,159
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
That happens too but yes, I have gone through more than 100 patches at home in a year.
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
03-19-26 | 09:08 AM
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,767
Likes: 1,788
From: North Central Wisconsin
Even for those of us who have lots of money, using a tube once and throwing it away is wasteful. It’s bad for the environment. Whether or not it is economical also depends on the number of flats you get per year. I’e gone through a box of 100 patches in a year. One hundred flats at $5 to $10 each is $500 to $1000 per year which is a lot of money even if you spend lots on your bike. One hundred patches and the glue for them costs around $40. That leaves $460 to $960 that I have to spend on other stuff. I have had tubes with 30 patches on them in the past. That’s $150 to $300 I saved as well as not contributing 30 tubes to landfills.
How does one go through a 100 patches in a year? If I have to patch, I've used the Park Tool adhesive patches but I can count on one hand how many I have had to use in the past 10 years.
03-19-26 | 09:10 AM
#31
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,767
Likes: 1,788
From: North Central Wisconsin
If you read my post I wasn't talking about MY disposable income. What I said was... "But the majority of us here are enthusiasts with disposable income to purchase bikes within the price range I mention"
That would not be an untrue statement and I also mentioned there are always going to be some exceptions to that.
03-19-26 | 09:21 AM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,767
Likes: 1,788
From: North Central Wisconsin
These days I'm down to TPU tubes in my road bike only (Tubeless everywhere else) and carrying another TPU tube as a spare.
03-19-26 | 09:25 AM
#33
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,767
Likes: 1,788
From: North Central Wisconsin
Actually, most bikes i see on here are under a grand, new, and most are used when purchased by the present owners...
every one of my personal bikes were bought used, except one Frame/fork, and many were just a frame with some remnant parts on them.
my DB was a nearly complete bike, in need of everything serviced, bought for $17 at a "Moving Tomorrow!" Sale..
I'd spent most my pocket cash on a front door at that sale... it was $25, and works wonderfully to this day.
the Specialized was a frame with a few bits, $50... found on CL.
the Trek was a bare frame/fork.... but brand new at the time... $310.. i put another 400 into it, over a couple months time, all new, high end parts.... prices were far lower back then.
The Commencal was a frame and rear shock, nothing else, $50.
the CF Fuji, just a frame and Campy Crank/bb, $110(it now has the price of $600 marked on it's sale tag), 18.5 lbs of fast and fun.... i over-paid for that crampy crankset.
the Gitane crit bike, $90, in need of a major re-grease/service... it came with extra parts, tires, and a pair of size ten shoes.
the Marin was just the frame, at 1/10 the original price, still in it's shipping bag.
even my Santana tandem needed Serious help... it was Complete. but outdated and not well... $75, at a moving sale.
none of them needed a credit card, and almost all of my recent builds are done with used parts, found for real cheap. (Cables, housing and chains are new.. i buy them in bulk, heavily discounted!)
you must be thinking of some other sub-forum, eh?
every one of my personal bikes were bought used, except one Frame/fork, and many were just a frame with some remnant parts on them.
my DB was a nearly complete bike, in need of everything serviced, bought for $17 at a "Moving Tomorrow!" Sale..
I'd spent most my pocket cash on a front door at that sale... it was $25, and works wonderfully to this day.
the Specialized was a frame with a few bits, $50... found on CL.
the Trek was a bare frame/fork.... but brand new at the time... $310.. i put another 400 into it, over a couple months time, all new, high end parts.... prices were far lower back then.
The Commencal was a frame and rear shock, nothing else, $50.
the CF Fuji, just a frame and Campy Crank/bb, $110(it now has the price of $600 marked on it's sale tag), 18.5 lbs of fast and fun.... i over-paid for that crampy crankset.
the Gitane crit bike, $90, in need of a major re-grease/service... it came with extra parts, tires, and a pair of size ten shoes.
the Marin was just the frame, at 1/10 the original price, still in it's shipping bag.
even my Santana tandem needed Serious help... it was Complete. but outdated and not well... $75, at a moving sale.
none of them needed a credit card, and almost all of my recent builds are done with used parts, found for real cheap. (Cables, housing and chains are new.. i buy them in bulk, heavily discounted!)
you must be thinking of some other sub-forum, eh?
But no...not thinking of other sub forums. If you ever look at any of the posts that will say "show us a picture of your XXXX bike" the majority of them are not pictures of cheap bikes.
03-19-26 | 09:34 AM
#34
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,767
Likes: 1,788
From: North Central Wisconsin
03-19-26 | 09:36 AM
#35
Mad bike riding scientist
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,127
Likes: 6,159
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
This would be correct. But the majority of enthusiasts on this forum and many other forums for any hobby...Most are using expensive equipment...Be it cameras, Fly rods, guns, bows, skis,. These enthusiast forums, much like this one, aren't full of people posting about cheap products they bought at a department store.
Pretty much everything we do is bad for the environment. Just driving to work in your car is bad for the environment. Purchasing all the items from the stores that are in plastic containers or plastic bags is bad for the environment. I could go on and on...But that's a different discussion.
How does one go through a 100 patches in a year? If I have to patch, I've used the Park Tool adhesive patches but I can count on one hand how many I have had to use in the past 10 years.
The green ones look like this, although these are from Sikeston, MO and are rather overfed.
The seeds dry and become very woody. They sit on the ground as a caltrop which means there is almost always a spike available to puncture something. Bike tires are just the right thickness for them to go right through the casing and into the tube. I’ve been on rides where I’ve ended up throwing away tires because I stopped counting at 60 punctures and wasn’t even halfway around the tire.
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
03-19-26 | 09:55 AM
#36
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,767
Likes: 1,788
From: North Central Wisconsin
There are lots of people posting on this forum that aren’t using expensive equipment. I ride relatively expensive bikes but I never question what others are riding. People at my co-op are proud of the cheapest bikes available but I would never look down on them for riding that kind of bike.
Yes, what we monkeys do is generally bad for the environment but that doesn’t mean you should go out of your way to make it worse. Driving a car to work? I rode my bike to work and school for over 40 years (from 50% to 60% of the time). I didn’t put 38 tons of carbon dioxide into the air in addition to several hundred pounds of tire wear. I’ve also avoided putting hundreds…yes, hundreds…of tubes into the waste stream as well.
I rode my bike to work a few times in the past during the summer...The issue there was the heat and humidity. Coming into the office stinky and with wet sweaty clothes is no fun.
So yup. Fire up the V8 4x4 every morning and drive to work.
Goatheads...Aware of them. But not a thing where I live. I've only ridden in Colorado a handful of times doing some gravel routes but didn't come across any goatheads.
03-19-26 | 10:00 AM
#37
When I worked in a long-established bike shop in the early '70's, we employees got used to patiently explaining to customers why we no longer patched tubes: not just because of the labor cost but also because we couldn't guarantee the patch wouldn't fail.
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You are always the same age inside.---Gertrude Stein
My aluminum bikes: Light, strong, cheap, and comfy.
You are always the same age inside.---Gertrude Stein
My aluminum bikes: Light, strong, cheap, and comfy.
03-19-26 | 10:04 AM
#38
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,767
Likes: 1,788
From: North Central Wisconsin
That's my stance. Once the tube is compromised its always compromised and I don't trust it.
03-19-26 | 10:54 AM
#39
That was the early '70's, when patch technology was a bit iffy. As far as I can remember, I've never had a Rema patch fail.
I don't have to deal with goatheads like those pictured earlier in the thread, but what with the tiny 3-day-beard-length whiskers from steel-belted car tires and those nasty headless nails that litter the roads around construction sites, I'll stick with patching tubes for the foreseeable future.
Though I suppose I could get a set of tubeless wheels and take up some busywork hobby instead of patching tubes. Maybe embroidery.
I don't have to deal with goatheads like those pictured earlier in the thread, but what with the tiny 3-day-beard-length whiskers from steel-belted car tires and those nasty headless nails that litter the roads around construction sites, I'll stick with patching tubes for the foreseeable future.
Though I suppose I could get a set of tubeless wheels and take up some busywork hobby instead of patching tubes. Maybe embroidery.
__________________
You are always the same age inside.---Gertrude Stein
My aluminum bikes: Light, strong, cheap, and comfy.
You are always the same age inside.---Gertrude Stein
My aluminum bikes: Light, strong, cheap, and comfy.
03-19-26 | 11:56 AM
#40
Mad bike riding scientist
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,127
Likes: 6,159
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
I have a fleet of bikes that are nicer than anything I’ve ever worked on at my co-op. They are dripping with boutique American made parts. Hell, I have 4 bikes with Paul Klampers on them. That said, I don’t look down my nose at someone who can only afford a Helmart bike or a used bike and I spend a lot of time and energy getting those bikes back on the road for those people.
Yes. Driving to work. Since Thursday of last week, approximately 40" of snow has dropped here. Coupled with 40 mph+ winds and cold temps. I'm not gonna ride a bike to work in those conditions.
I rode my bike to work a few times in the past during the summer...The issue there was the heat and humidity. Coming into the office stinky and with wet sweaty clothes is no fun.
I rode my bike to work a few times in the past during the summer...The issue there was the heat and humidity. Coming into the office stinky and with wet sweaty clothes is no fun.
So yup. Fire up the V8 4x4 every morning and drive to work.
Goatheads...Aware of them. But not a thing where I live. I've only ridden in Colorado a handful of times doing some gravel routes but didn't come across any goatheads.
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
03-19-26 | 12:59 PM
#41
Really Old Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,601
Likes: 1,856
From: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds. 2019 Giant Explore E+3
I had one fail ONCE on a Harbor Freight wheelbarrow tube.
The tube seemed to be made out of a "plastic" material vs "rubber".
My "Bell" patch kit also failed.
I blame the tube material.
Else, NEVER.
Use the sandpaper, let the glue dry & "rub" the patch in with a coin (quarters work good) or similar item from the center out.
The tube seemed to be made out of a "plastic" material vs "rubber".
My "Bell" patch kit also failed.
I blame the tube material.
Else, NEVER.
Use the sandpaper, let the glue dry & "rub" the patch in with a coin (quarters work good) or similar item from the center out.
03-19-26 | 01:13 PM
#42
Old fart
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26,306
Likes: 5,211
From: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
I'm not sure that's a real reason; otherwise, shops could offer patching without guarantee at a discount over replacement. But if the cost of patching exceeds that of replacement, there's no incentive to offer patching as an option. Perhaps that will change with hyper-expensive TPU tubes.
03-19-26 | 01:19 PM
#43
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 7,310
Likes: 3,187
From: NW Oregon
Bikes: 1982 Trek 930R Custom, '91 Diamondback Ascent w/ XT, XTR updates, Fuji Team Pro CF road flyer, Specialized Sirrus Gravel Convert, '09 Comencal Meta 5.5 XC, '02 Marin MBX500, '84 Gitane Criterium bike
I had one fail ONCE on a Harbor Freight wheelbarrow tube.
The tube seemed to be made out of a "plastic" material vs "rubber".
My "Bell" patch kit also failed.
I blame the tube material.
Else, NEVER.
Use the sandpaper, let the glue dry & "rub" the patch in with a coin (quarters work good) or similar item from the center out.
The tube seemed to be made out of a "plastic" material vs "rubber".
My "Bell" patch kit also failed.
I blame the tube material.
Else, NEVER.
Use the sandpaper, let the glue dry & "rub" the patch in with a coin (quarters work good) or similar item from the center out.
i buy/sell/use Park patches, i can get the patches in bulk form too... REMA kits became too spendy for my low budget customers.
i miss the fire portion of installing Monkey Grip patches...
03-19-26 | 02:09 PM
#45
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 1,750
So you think I'm wrong that the majority on this forum are riding more expensive bikes than what's offered at the department store?
If you read my post I wasn't talking about MY disposable income. What I said was... "But the majority of us here are enthusiasts with disposable income to purchase bikes within the price range I mention"
That would not be an untrue statement and I also mentioned there are always going to be some exceptions to that.
If you read my post I wasn't talking about MY disposable income. What I said was... "But the majority of us here are enthusiasts with disposable income to purchase bikes within the price range I mention"
That would not be an untrue statement and I also mentioned there are always going to be some exceptions to that.
Your initial claim was not "better than a big box bike", it was that the majority of people using the Bicycle Mechanics forum ride bikes costing $2-5k. Now I don't deny that some of us do, but I would not claim a majority because I have no basis for that claim and neither does anyone else, despite your enthusiasm for the idea. Likewise I make no claim for the disposable income of participants in the forum, something of which you spuriously claim knowledge.
We do not* dismiss things as "not worth the effort, just throw cash at it" although that's an option for some readers. Some people need a bike to get to work, or to a store or pharmacy, and may not have much cash until the end of the month - these users should not be told "that bike's junk, you should have spent at least $1k" and it's unhelpful to cultivate the notion that this forum is for enthusiasts with elite equipment.
* except for veganbikes the notorious bike snob
03-19-26 | 02:15 PM
#46
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,767
Likes: 1,788
From: North Central Wisconsin
Your initial claim was not "better than a big box bike", it was that the majority of people using the Bicycle Mechanics forum ride bikes costing $2-5k. Now I don't deny that some of us do, but I would not claim a majority because I have no basis for that claim and neither does anyone else, despite your enthusiasm for the idea. Likewise I make no claim for the disposable income of participants in the forum, something of which ou spuriously claim knowledge.
03-19-26 | 02:21 PM
#47
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 1,750
I think you think that you're somewhere else than where you actually are. I repeat: you have no hard statistical evidence for your claim, which is based only on a notion you feel to be correct.
03-19-26 | 03:27 PM
#49
Clark W. Griswold
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 18,185
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From: ,location, location
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
What do you not understand about "you have no bona fide statistical evidence to support that claim"?
Your initial claim was not "better than a big box bike", it was that the majority of people using the Bicycle Mechanics forum ride bikes costing $2-5k. Now I don't deny that some of us do, but I would not claim a majority because I have no basis for that claim and neither does anyone else, despite your enthusiasm for the idea. Likewise I make no claim for the disposable income of participants in the forum, something of which you spuriously claim knowledge.
We do not* dismiss things as "not worth the effort, just throw cash at it" although that's an option for some readers. Some people need a bike to get to work, or to a store or pharmacy, and may not have much cash until the end of the month - these users should not be told "that bike's junk, you should have spent at least $1k" and it's unhelpful to cultivate the notion that this forum is for enthusiasts with elite equipment.
* except for veganbikes the notorious bike snob
Your initial claim was not "better than a big box bike", it was that the majority of people using the Bicycle Mechanics forum ride bikes costing $2-5k. Now I don't deny that some of us do, but I would not claim a majority because I have no basis for that claim and neither does anyone else, despite your enthusiasm for the idea. Likewise I make no claim for the disposable income of participants in the forum, something of which you spuriously claim knowledge.
We do not* dismiss things as "not worth the effort, just throw cash at it" although that's an option for some readers. Some people need a bike to get to work, or to a store or pharmacy, and may not have much cash until the end of the month - these users should not be told "that bike's junk, you should have spent at least $1k" and it's unhelpful to cultivate the notion that this forum is for enthusiasts with elite equipment.
* except for veganbikes the notorious bike snob
I know you dislike that I am honest and direct in my assessments but don't just assume that honesty is just being a snob. I do enjoy nicer bikes and understand why nicer bikes exist and also understand heavily the service side and why to suggest something nicer or suggest someone not put money towards something that is not worth it. In this case the labor to patch a tube is higher and will not always hold and work so for a tiny bit more money and a lot less time and a guarantee that you won't have a failure (unless improperly installed or a warranty tube which are few and far between unless you buy the cheaper tubes). That is not snobbery that is simply saving time and effort. As I said above time is money.
