Another chain question
 

When I got this Falcon I didn’t have the tools to take apart the bottom bracket to make sure it was ok. The bike went to a local bike shop to have the bottom bracket serviced and to change the RD from a Campy Velox to Nuovo Record. The freewheel had just come from a Pastorbob service and the RD was cleaned and jockey wheels replaced.
‘I put maybe 10 miles on the bike and went back to polishing the rims. I noticed the jockey wheels had crud on them and the chain was completely cruddy. It occurred to me that the LBS never cleaned the chain and I failed to notice. Took it off today and ran it in the ultrasonic with Dawn as a degreaser. Well, it needed more than dawn but noticed it was a Renold chain.

Do I need to use a specific master link or quick link or just push the pin back it?

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...49b94b233.jpeg
After a run in the cleaner
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...434b14ab9.jpeg

You left out the key information: how many speeds? Generally 8 speed or less don't need a quick link and proper use of a chain tool will allow you to press the pin back in. If the chain didn't have a quick link originally, then it must have been assembled by just pushing in the pin.

It is a ten speed. There was no link, I pushed out the pin far enough to separate the link.

Quick links or master links are easier. Especially if you are going to be taking it off to clean regularly. They do need to at least match the speed that the chain was made for. I'm even pickier on that and will want to match the brand too.

However you can just push the pin back in. Many might gasp in horror at that though. But I did it with a 11 speed chain when it was new and it never gave any issues during it's entire life. In my case I would have gone out to get a quick link or the break-away pins Shimano was using with their chains at that time. But it was late on a Saturday night. And I wanted to ride the bike the next day.

The fact your pins protrude from the side plates makes me doubt that is a proper chain for a 10 speed. But possibly it's the picture enhancing their look.

Or are you multiplying the sprockets on the rear by the sprockets on the front. We don't do that today. That went out of style a decade before the turn of the century.

That doesn't look like a 10sp chain with the mushroomed pins. I think in current terms that would be a 5sp as in a 5 cog freewheel. In any case you can just push the pins back in with that type of chain but be very clear how to do it properly. The pins need to be mushroomed out again with the chain tool.

Thanks, I may just get a new chain.

Back in the day when Campy Velox was an option "ten speed" meant 2×5 not 1×10. Context is everything.

2x5 is correct. My mistake for thinking "Falcon" would indicate the 2x5.

Guys: this chain was well before indexing systems or Uniglide, both which spec serious outer link retention needs, and as such the pins have no peening or end riveting. As long as the usual care is taken when using a chain tool to not ovalize the side plate's pin hole and one centers the pin WRT the side plates all should be good (assuming no stiff link).

Now having said all that people have a way of finding the weakness of a system. In this case and with current assumptions this means that today's riders will likely shift under power and find out why current chains do have end of pin treatments that help reduce side plate pry off. Chains of the pre indexed era worked fine till riders asked too much of them and didn't soft pedal when shifting.

So if the cogs have no shift gates, lift pins, pick up teeth or even twist teeth (Shimano late 1970s) the Reynolds chain should be fine. Just learn to soft pedal and shift before you need to. Andy

I gave the chain a good cleaning and checked the links and pins one by one. Looks to me like it will be fine just pushing the original pin back into the chain. Anyone know what the "2" between the links is for?

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f04ff15028.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e0ea71cd54.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2709ba7c13.jpg

i'd peen the end of that moved pin with a shallow angle center punch, or a hole transfer punch, if this were my project.. then re-adjust the clearance as needed...

that chain looks basically unused, btw.. :thumb:

I think peening is unnecessary. I never had any trouble with the chains on my bikes that I pushed the pin out of for over 55 year. And I never used a quick link till I got my current bike in 2020. With the exception of one of those master links way BITD that was problematic for coming undone. Which it did once at a most inconvenient moment when I was a pre-teen.. And was used no more.

The most I ever did was make certain a equal amount was sticking out each side and that the side plate wasn't binding. Which usually just needed flexing from extreme to extreme a few times to free it up.

But, it is just opinion for either of us.

And yes, I do see that this is a chain for a 5 speed bike as we now will call them.

This confuses me.....

How many sprockets are on the rear of your bike? Today, that is how many speeds we consider your bike as having. Only up until the early to mid 90's did we refer to the speeds of a bike as the number of sprockets on the rear x the sprockets on the crank.

Or does your bike in fact have 10 sprockets on the rear? If so, then that seems a odd chain for a bike with 10 speeds on the rear.

It has 5x2 drive, It is a 1973 Falcon.

"Back then", the only 10 speed bikes were a 2x5.
As the years went by, they added more cogs on the back. Now up to 12 or 13?
So, a 24 speed could be a 3x8 or a 2x12. That's 2 entirely different chain widths. (chains & cogs get narrower as the number of speeds increases)
30+ years later, we just go by the number of cogs in back when referring to chain width to avoid the confusion.
See-
https://bike.bikegremlin.com/3555/bi...ion-standards/

Scroll down to the 2nd chart to show how cogs are narrower as the number of speeds increase.
https://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html

It's not inappropriate to call old 2×5 bikes "ten speeds", just potentially confusing. The (front)×(back) notation is more precise, but those of us who are older than our 1970s ten speeds may not be acquainted with it. It's pretty easy to tell from what the OP wtote that this is a vintage ten speed, not the newer sort, also obvious from the photo of the chain - or do people use tiny screens to view this forum, and can't see it's an old Renold?

The only thing I've been riding for the last 15 years is a Trek Mountain bike. It has 3x8 gearing. Once a year I would take it into the local Trek store and have it serviced. Last time it got new chainrings, cogs, chain, brake discs, pads tires and tubes. Everything was adjusted and I asked them to bleed the brakes. I have not worked on a bike for better part of 30 years. I generally ride alone, to be left alone and enjoy my outdoor time. I'm polite, give greetings but generally keep to myself for however many miles I ride. For me and I would think many others, it's not only good for physical health but mental health as well. As a result, I know exactly nothing about modern bikes. So, I wrote 10 speed because that's what I knew. I would have listed my Trek as a 24 speed....Now I know better. And to all who helped, my sincerest thanks.

Don't feel alone.

Riding by myself is not what I consider "alone". There are the sounds (preferably of nature), the wind, the views (also preferably of nature), the bike. There's a lot to enjoy, and I never feel lonely. :thumb:

Yeah 10speed is just the most ambiguous one. 24 - everyone know you mean 3x8, because if you have 2x12 (or 1x12) you say 12speed as a matter of habit. That chain clearly pre-dated 10 speed cassettes so the pic helped disambiguate anyway.

Didn’t realise there were hydraulic brakes 15 years ago.
Although also, that was the year before Wiggins won the TdF. I suddenly feel old.

choddo
Actually they [hydraulic brakes] were introduced to cycling in the late 80's. And took hold by the early 2000's. So 26ish years ago

Mountain bikes leading the way. As they did for tubeless tires too.

Back to the question.... I don't know how many chains I've replaced. Certainly hundreds. I estimate 75% of the folks that come into our Co-op need a new chain. Some of these are so egregiously worn out that they are stretched past the ability of the tools we use to measure stretch. Of the worst chains, most have caused accelerated drivetrain wear that have killed the freewheel/cassette and the rings. So a complete drivetrain update required.

Anyway, this very old chain made in the 5-speed era. Bushing based construction that predates the Sedis bushingless design. Primitive plate design, which was much improved by Shimano in their UG, IG and HG chains. So this chain will be laterally stiff and feature slow clunky shifting between cogs.

Measure the chain stretch, and if it fails, toss it and upgrade to a current 5/6 speed derailleur chain. The modern chains shift worlds better than the old ones. Personally, for the improvement in performance, I would just toss the old chain proactively, regardless of the stretch.

These old chains feature pins that extend beyond the plates, so it is generally OK to push a pin (mostly) out to cut links and reconnect. Then push back in. If you've ovalized or oversized the hole in the plates, then you've got a problem, which might solved by peening.

Another suggestion: don't use any water-based degreasers on chains, no matter what they are mixed with or augmented by. Water, being a polar molecule, has almost no ability to dissolve hydrocarbons (grease and oils etc.), it is simply an ineffective degreaser. Further, water is poison to most things on a bike, due to corrosion. Apart from irresponsibly worn-out chains and drivetrains, the other bane of our existence as mechanics is folks who regularly misguidedly 'wash' and 'clean' their bikes with a hose or worse a pressure washer. Every bearing is corroded out and the chain is stiff and damaged beyond saving.

Mineral spirits is far more effective at cleaning chains. Of course, don't use mineral spirits to 'wash' your bike. A damp rag for the outside.

But my ca. 1980 tourer is 12 speed - it's written on the chainstay.

I think Bill was referring to being left behind as bike tech has moved on apace - carbon, e-shifting a zillion sprockets, e-bikes, hydraulic disc brakes, oil-damped air-sprung suspension with thru-axles, tubeless or TPU ... I admit to having a few of these in my fleet, but I also have steel frames, rim brakes and analogue gears which work just fine.

If you precede "10-speed" with "old", there's no confusion.
"My old 10-speed Motobecane" would be understood by anyone as a 2 x 5. :lol:

I was thinking more of this part of Bill's post:
"I generally ride alone, to be left alone and enjoy my outdoor time. I'm polite, give greetings but generally keep to myself for however many miles I ride. For me and I would think many others, it's not only good for physical health but mental health as well."

It has never bothered me not to have the latest technology on my bicycle. I've always enjoyed being able to adjust, repair or construct my personal mobility equipment myself, at home or, if necessary, by the side of the road.

Grumpus is correct.

My bad. :o

I was vague.