freeranger

First--Listen to what it is the customer thinks they want, or is wrong with the bike.
Then--explain how & what you intend to do to fix the problem, and if you think it may be something besides what the customer thinks, explain it to them.
Give a fairly accurate estimate of time and money required to fix said problem, and always contact the customer if something unexpected shows (say-a customer brings in a bike for a problem with poor shifting, and in repairing the bike you notice a frayed brake cable).
Offer to return the old parts.
Treat every customer as if they were the best customer you ever had! If they aren't now, they might just become one.
Don't treat anyone like a dummy-may seem obvious, but I once had a person in a LBS come out with a completely false remark--I knew better, but let it go. I don't buy anything from him. I may buy from the shop, but there are other people there I will purchase from. Haven't seem him lately, come to think of it!

2manybikes

Could you explain that a little more and tell me where it came from?

It's not unusual, of course that does not make it legal or illegal, but I don't understand how that decision can be controlled by a law. When I had my own business I made those decisions with no restrictions that I could find. You don't even have to sell to someone if you don't want to.

Rev.Chuck

I believe it is part of our agreement with the card service, they run all cards but we have to take all cards. Besides it is good business even if we lose money on the very small stuff. With credit cards, there is a percentage so it does not hurt so bad but when you run a debit there is a flat charge, for us it is either 25 or 35 cents.
For this reason I carry a couple of bucks with me just in case I need to make a small purchse.

mcoine

Yeah, if you really want to help out your local shop, or any local business, pay cash!

cuda2k

So very very true. Be sure that each of your service guys understands that if they don't know the answer to a customer's question - find someone who does. Don't pull an answer out of the air and hope that either the customer don't know better or that it may be the right answer. I love doing this with computer stores - going in asking them questions as I'm browsing to see what kinds of answers they'll give me in order to make a sale at a higher price point. It all boils down to being honest with your customers at all times. They'll respect your shop a lot for it.

jimmythefly

Basically, when selling something such as a part or future service, a shop can dictate any type of payment it wants. (no large bills, no jars of quarters, business check only, minimum $50 for cards, etc.) If you don't like it, you don't buy the item and take your business elsewhere.

But, if a shop has done the service already, and you are in debt to them, then they must accept payment that has been designated by law as legal tender. Namely cash. Credit cards, checks, and anything else is up to them if they want to accept. In some cases very large amounts of small value coins are not considered legal tender.

2manybikes

Things could have changed since I had my own merchant credit card service. I understand the way it works with percentages, and sometimes even the average ticket size depending on the bank. I have negotiated with banks for different plans, in the past.
I don't think there is a law or rule that you must, but it can certainly be the right thing to do. I am involved with some shops that are probably too cheap for their own good. They don't take credit cards for under $50 in most cases. The rules or laws could vary from bank to bank, and state to state too.

I don't have any research to back up my point of view, and I'm out of date...so take my opinion with a grain of salt (that fell off a snack brought to you buy a happy customer).

nickw

#1-When I spend $800 at a store, and then they charge me .$70 for a used headset spacer that came off an old bike, I do not go back.
#2-When I bring some parts in I got from an online store and you give me flack and tell me I should have bought it from the shop, blah blah blah....I do not go back. This particular case, $70 shipped to my door or $109 at by LBS.

jsharr

I am 41 years old and have been riding for as long as many of the gentlemen and women turning wrenches and writing service tickets at my LBS have been alive. My biggest desire is to be treated as an equal, which I am at my shop. Treat me as if I have knowledge, even if it may not be equal to yours and it goes a long way with me.

Landgolier

I do enough of my own work that I don't have one shop I'm super-loyal to, and since there are a lot of good LBS in Chicago I tend to just swing by whichever of the 8 or so good ones I happen to be passing near. However, I also buy stuff online and at Performance, and I am tired of catching crap from LBS people about it. I'm not talking about labor surcharges for BYOP, I'm fine with those within reason (don't try to charge me for crap you couldn't have gotten, tho).

However, I am tired of getting the hairy eyeball every time somebody sees a performance logo, or hears somebody mention they got a screaming deal on something at sierra trading post. I'm sorry man, but I wear bigger clothes sizes than most cyclists, and on average I need to put my flat, wide feet into about 10 different size 45-46 shoes before I find something that fits, and no I don't want to pay you full retail plus our high local sales tax to order me some $240 sidi megas. You'd go broke if you tried to stock my size in everything, you and I both know that, and that's why you don't. I know shops make big margins on clothes and shoes, and part of that bottom line helps them keep more parts and bikes in stock, but that doesn't give them the right to act like just by being a bike shop within a 10 mile radius of my house entitles them to every dollar I ever spend on bike-related stuff.

I guess ultimately it rubs me the wrong way when people whine about the big retail shops and online dealers, but are happy to pull out their QBP catalog and "special order" some crap for me, and charge me full markup for the arduous service of poking in a 6 digit code on a national wholesaler's site and then taking it out of the box with the rest of the order a couple days later. I do support my local and the little guys as much as possible, but I'm only going back to the ones that don't take me for granted.

spunkyruss

The fact that you are soliciting input from all of us implies that you will likely treat your customers very well, but you have to treat your mechanics very well, too. I have a limited understanding of the financial pressures that control salary and benefits. I realize that an employer can only offer so much, without going out of business, and leaving them all unemployed. One factor that employers often overlook is the quality of their management. The front-line staff needs to keep the customers happy, but management needs to keep the front-line staff happy. If ineffective management produces a bad working environment then it will eventually become visible to the customer as a front-line staff with a bad attitude. If not dealt with, the problem employees will force the good ones out, and you will eventually be left with only problem employees.

zoridog

1. Quote repair costs up front
2. Have it done when promised

3. Take trade-ins or sell bikes on consignment when customers buy new bikes (this would be the ultimate!)

scott L R

Good honest shop, fantastic service, and great repair. www.spokedwheelz.com

Emerson

I try to support LBS's, but the attitude I get in some of the shops drives me nuts. I currently ride a Specialized hybrid which has a lot more miles on it than my buddy's Klein that sits in his garage except for a couple times a summer, and yet when I stopped by the LBS lately with a question for the mechanics I got this condescending attitude because I wasn't on a 16 lb carbon-fiber racing bike. They weren't busy--there was no one in the shop and they were just chatting. One of them actually said in a smart-a** tone "nice fenders." Needless to say I won't be going back, which is a shame because it is right down the street.

Shifting over to sales for a moment, as I've described in other posts I've got some serious back issues. I've been shopping for a new bike and I get these attitudes from these 19-year-olds like I should just quit now--if the seat isn't 4 inches above the bars it ain't riding.

Not all of us ride fancy bikes, but we ride more than a lot of folks with the pricey rides.

It all boils down to respecting the customer in front of you.

jamiewilson3

Pete,

The reason that this is the case is that we tend to know when the shop is not being 100% straight with us about what we need etc. I use the LBS for something if I get stuck or something along those lines. I do 95% of my own work and have had a few run-ins where they are trying to feed me some BS. That means it is time to find yet another shop. Unfortunately, I have had this problem at more than one place. The sad thing is that the shop as a whole is very good, but all it takes is one mechanic or sales guy to try and pull one over on me and I move on.

The best advice I can give is to be FAIR and HONEST....simple in concept, but harded in practice as a manager......as many others have said - I commend you on your effort and good luck!

Pete Hamer

This is one thing that we don't currently do. I know that some local auto parts stores rent tools and I know that I appreciate it. They are a bit different because they only sell parts and don't do service but it doesn't mean that we can't rent tools at a bike shop. I might look into doing something like that. Would people prefer to rent a tool and take it home or have a work bench set up and rent the workbench, tools, and space which would cost more? If a shop offered rental tools would it eliminate the problem of the shop not borrowing tools or would people still expect to be able to borrow tools? I think this is one of those "uncomfortable barriers" and I know it's a hot button on this forum. I'd love to find an amicable solution to this problem. I'd especially like to hear from people who already feel that shops should loan tools.

Also, thank for everyones input so far. I plan on using this info. for employee training. I think it will help employees see things from a customers point of view.

Rev.Chuck

This is really surprising to me. I have been a mechanic for many shops(heavy equipment, power equipment, bikes) and I have never known anyone at these businesses to lie to a customer just to make a buck. I have had to bring stuff(computer, expected warranty service) in for work and have never been screwed by the shop. I have had shops make mistakes(Had a shift link broken on a car that was in for emissions inspection and many other tales of woe) but this has not managed to make me think that they are out to get me, but that they are just human like everyone.

wonkemtel

At least in IL if you are going to accept Credit cards you can not descriminate against certail levels of purchasing. As I said before, I know CC companies charge a % and I understand why retailers may want a minumum CC order but by law (not necessarily by practice) they either accept CC's or don't. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread with apologies.

Rev.Chuck

Tough indeed.
I am conflicted on the tool loan thing because I am a mechanic. There is no shop, outside of a bike shop, where even another employee expects to borrow a tool. When I need a tool, I buy it*. Seems to me that anyone that needs a tool should do the same and buy it, then they will have it forever.
At the same time when a person shows up and wants to put a bottle cage on(something we would do for them for free) I let them have a wrench and go to it.
As for the cutters, I would not loan them out to anyone, even for a fee. the cost of sharpening a set of BB chasers is over $100, assuming they have not been dropped and cracked.
I would never presume to go into a customers house and borrow the stove so I could cook lunch(Which would be nice as an unnamed employee broke the shop toaster)

Having a free loaner set of the basics is a good idea. For the specialty tools I am of a mind to say no. I will install your races correctly for far less than you can buy the tools for, or rent them more than likely, and if there is a mistake you can expect me to correct the problem.


*Seriously when I need a tool I buy it, I don't see why others can't do the same. If my garage is stolen the insurance company will be a'crying. Three rollaround boxes full of tools, plus two welders(gas and electric) grinders, OBD scanner, compressor, hoist, jacks, full bike shop. You get what you need then you have it for the next time.

cuda2k

Rev.Chuck - some times it is human error that comes across as a lie (to make a buck). But I have watched co-workers (and even managers) in retail flat out lie to a customer about the quality, condition, etc of an other item to either upsell from what the customer wants, or to point them from fixing what they have to completely replacing it. It's quite easy to do in electronics and computers where the customer very rarely knows a lot about what they are dealing with. Bicycles are much more simple of machines, but I wouldn't put it past someone to tell a customer that they needed to replace a headset or the complete bike -vs- replacing bearings or a race. Simplified example, but you get the point.

On the topic of having a stand in shop vs rent tools - there are pros/cons to each. If you have one bench with tools to work on then if it's in use the customer has to wait till its free. Renting out tools - you can get just the one(s) you need and come back when you're done. A note on renting out tools - I suggest you go about it in this way to prevent the majority of problems: Customer pays cost for tool + rental fee up front, cost of tool is refunded upon return (in proper condition).

I'd pick a fair, honest, respectful shop over one with a lounge and tool rental though. Just to keep things in perspective.

Pete Hamer

Another issue that I want to try to find some way of maiking better is the "16 year old punk in the back" image. We do hire teenagers to work at our shop. Most never do repair work. I don't think we will be able to stop doing it any time soon, they are cheaper and part time. I know that people don't like seeing the teenager in the back. It would make me nervous to think that one is working on something of mine too. The reality of the situation is that they are a necessary evil, no offense intended to any teenagers.

What do people think we should do? Do we hide them in the basement? Do we put up a sign that sais "If you don't want a teenager working on your bike please request an adult."?

I know that most people who frequent a shop will develop a relationship with one or two mechanics that they can trust but the first couple times people come into a shop they might get "stuck" with the kid or just see them and form a negative opinion. How do I prevent being pre-judged?

Rev.Chuck

There is no cure. Some people will always believe the teenagers are stupid(As they ran two stopsigns, cut off a car, and made an old lady leap back to the curb before comeing in) You just need to make sure the young ones(remember that show?) are as educated as possible, before you let them loose on the customer and that an experienced guy checks all their work. It is not a bad idea to have an independent check of all build work regardless of who puts the bike together. we have a guy that is pretty awful at finishing a build so I have to go after him on everyone.

roccobike

I think a LBS should do everything they can do to minimize employee turnover.
When I got back into serious cycling, I went to the LBS closest to my house, the same one where I purchased my son's MTB. The mechanics there went out of their way to help me work on my 2 garage sale specials. Of course they also sold me tools for each new job and parts, so we both profited. Then they had employee turnover and the two mechanics I knew, left. Now I had to deal with a guy who sold me a tool with the smarta** comment 'See you learned a new word today'. Then they hired a young woman who had enough ego to rival any LBS employee I've met before or since. And the employee turnover continued. I could not get a continuing relationship with anyone at that shop.
Still, when I decided to purchase a new MTB, I gave this shop my first shot. The lady with the attitude laughed because she thought it was 'funny' when I put on a helmet before trying out a new bike. Then they told me why the frame size I chose was 'wrong' not recognizing that I'm an older cyclist who needs to ride with a less agressive posture.
Look, I live in an area (central NC) where there are plenty of LBSs, I estimate 20 within 25 miles from my house. If I can't get a comfortable relationship with a shop, I'm not going to spend my bucks there. I've since purchased two new bikes at other shops.
My point is, try to keep your employees so that the person who buys tools and parts on a regular basis can build up that relationship. You never know when that few hundred spent on parts, cloths and tools will convert to a new bike sale.

Rev.Chuck

"Still, when I decided to purchase a new MTB, I gave this shop my first shot. The lady with the attitude laughed because she thought it was 'funny' when I put on a helmet before trying out a new bike. Then they told me why the frame size I chose was 'wrong' not recognizing that I'm an older cyclist who needs to ride with a less agressive posture."

We offer and customers usually refuse, helmets. I wear one on repair test rides, myself.
The fit thing is interesting, there is a hype out there that there is a set of numbers that fit a person to a bike regardless of their riding style or physical condition. We will do a fitkit on a customer, but I would rarther fit them based on their comfort and the kind of riding they do.

MattP.

That's what I like about one of my lbs over the other. At the one i have mentioned many times before in this thread, there is usually a few teenager there, but there is always at least 2 older guys there. I think it is much more proffesional to have an older guy there (no offense to older people ) "supervising" the teenagers. At the other shop (the one w/ 3 guys there) the guys are early 20's. They end up working on their bike most of the time and surfing the internet.

I hope my being 16 doesn't prohibit me from getting a job at a shop I've been to UBI once already, have been rebuilding bike for the last 2 years, and am returning this summer for the proffesional class. I hope the stereotypical teenagers (goofing off, driving fast, acting rude) haven't ruined my chance