Diggidy

Okay well I have a Trek 4500 that I got at the end of May this year, and I have had problems with it on and off since I got it. I made a post a few months ago about my cassette not working properly, 1-3 gears would slip every 2 seconds or so whether under load or not, turned out the whole cassette was bent, got replaced and figured it was all good. Well it's not, I'm having the same problem again, only in first gear right now, but it's the same thing as before. Since I have had the bike the third chain ring has always made a weird almost grinding sound when ever in a high gear, under heavy stress, and I am starting to think it's not aligned properly and the grinding is the chain's quick connect almost slipping off the chain ring, and I think it could also explain the reason the cassette would keep bending, because if they aren't aligned it's going to pull unequally and exert too much force on one side and not enough on the other.

Also, crank set problems... not to long after getting the bike I had the left peddle arm fall off at the crank because the bolt unscrewed itself and rounded out the square of the peddle arm. I had a new peddle arm and installed and the first ride after getting it had the same problem again, and this was a different model of peddle arm Trek gave me, so I don't think it's the peddle arm as much as it is a ****ty crank set. Now I have creaking CONSTANTLY, it started out that it would only do it when I was standing up peddling and it would creak when ever I would put my weight on one direction, like if the left peddle was infront of the right I would push it down that way and it would creak until it seemed like it hit a stop, but with a half rotation the left peddle would be behind the right now and it would creak until it again hit a stop, almost like there was something in the crank that is giving a little bit, and I am also still having problems with the peddle arm bolt loosening, but hasn't fallen off again because I make sure to check it before every ride. tightening the bolt doesn't seem to help the creaking that much either, and it makes me worry sometimes that it's the frame that is creaking which is really freaking me out.

Third problem, oh yes there is more. When peddling in lower gears (1-4) under heavy load(like when climbing) the chain will curl up into the chain rings completely locking the crankest up and making me back peddle to fix the lockup and then it peddles fine, but this is becoming a more frequent occurrence, one that made my 10 mile ride through the state park this last weekend pure hell. I think a miss aligned chain ring would explain this because if it's not spinning true it might be acting almost like a dérailleur throwing the chain up into the chain ring.

I'm just really fed up with this bike, I know the bike isn't supposed to be a piece of ****, but that is what it is for me right now. It's really making biking unenjoyable for me; but I love it so much now I'm hooked and have just worked through the problems so far. The cassette slippage and the peddle arm creaking is more a nuisance than a problem that effects my riding, but the chain curling up into the chain rings makes it impossible to ride because it completely halts me on climbs making me get off my bike. I have taken it to Trek three or four times and they usually replace something, but it never actually fixes it. I also don't have much money to spend on a new bike either because college is just starting for me and I don't want to spend a lot of money before I figure out how much I will need to school.

Wordbiker

It's spelled 'pedal'.

Grun

lols

OneTinSloth

dude....not cool...and yet, i chuckled.

i think the grinding problems you're having wouldn't be happening so much if you didn't ride in the small chainring and the small cog combination. it puts the chain at an awkward angle, and causes excess wear on all drivetrain components. the same, or very similar gearing can be found in the middle chainring and one of the middle cogs.

the other problem you're experiencing with the lowest cog (largest)is probably related to poor adjustment of the low limit screw. unless of course you're actually talking about the highest cog (smallest) then it's poor adjustment of the high limit screw.

either that or you're just the most unlucky person on the planet and the world is totally out to get you specifically, and trek completely hates you, knew you were going to purchase that exact bike and sabotaged it from the factory so that you would have a bad experience with their bicycle. i'm sure shimano is in on it too, along with the fork manufacturer, and the chain manufacturer, whoever they might be. i think maybe you should try fishing. or take up bowling. i hear macrame can be very rewarding...

BikingGrad80

Sounds like you just had a run of bad luck. Find a shop that is competent enough to sort out all the problems with your drivetrain. The crankarm issue sounds like the crank bolt was not tightened enough so the arm fell off and warped the crankarm. The creeking could be anything, seatpost is a good possibility and noises are tough to track. Or perhaps the bottom bracket spindle was fubared by the first crankarm.
It is normal to have to sort out problems the first year. Once those are taken care, other than routine maintenance, ie clean/oil the chain replace tires, you should not need to mess with the bike too often.

Wordbiker

Sorry, I just got hung up on 'peddle' being misused that many times. I tried to translate and gave up.

Seems that the bike is new enough that the shop should take care of him. I'd take it back to the shop (or was it direct from Trek?)

dobber

Wonder how you would've managed with CigTechs most awesome GMC Denali review than.

cyccommute 

Bikes are mechanical devices. They need love from time to time and yours hasn't been getting the proper amount.

A skipping chain on a new bike is the result of an improperly tensioned cable. That's why bike shops have the tune-up policy that most of them have. After the first month or so, the cables need a little tweeking to make sure that they are at the proper tension. That's why you are skipping. The derailer is being lazy and not holding the chain in the proper place. The chain is just doing what it is told. Tighten the cable (or have the bike shop do it since you are still within that 1 year period that most shops use). It's almost impossible to bend a cassette cog by the way. The cog is just too small and stacked with too many other bits of metal to bend.

Next problem: The grinding noise that you hear in the small chainring/small cog combination is from the derailer folding back on itself and the upper part of the chain rubbing on the lower part of the chain. If they overlap far enough, the chain can catch on itself and the derailer can be twisted backwards and possibly sheared off. Best advice: Don't ride in that combination! You don't have to. The gears on your bike aren't like the gears of a car. You don't start with 1 (small chainring/large cog) and work your way to 27 (large chainring/large cog). Many of those combinations are duplicates of other gears. Go over to the gear calculator on Sheldon Brown's site and learn your combinations. You will have to count the teeth on your cassette (all of them) and your crank. As a stopgap, don't use the small chainring and any of the gears above about the middle of the cassette (4 or 5 on a 9 spd). Also don't use the large chainring/large cog combination. You can break the derailer off doing that too.

A crankset bolt should be torqued, plain and simple. I've never had an arm come off any bike I've ever owned but I always use a torque wrench to install the bolt. Your mechanic (I'm assuming the bike shop did this) is not tightening the crank properly. Either he needs to do some upper body work or he needs to tone it back a little. If the bolt is too loose, the arm can eventually work its way loose. If tighten too much, the arm can crack and the same think can occur. You may be okay at this point however because creaking from the bottom bracket can come from a variety of problems. It could be, in no particular order:

Loose crank
Loose bottom bracket
Pedal problem
Loose chainring bolt
Or, my personal favorite, loose saddle (Yes, it has happened to me and it's almost impossible to find)

Again, take the bike back for a midyear tune up.

Chain suck. You have a burr or a bent tooth on the inner ring. It happens a lot. Look at the chainring and look for anything that looks out of the ordinary. It can be really tiny. A burr will be at the end of the tooth or the end of a scratch on the ring. If you can find it, use a file on it. Or replace the inner ring.

I'll bet that the chain suck happens when you shift to the ring. Try pedaling with a little less tension (just ease back for a moment) when you shift.

Learn how the bike works and how to fix it. Once you have that understanding, you'll know how to fix the little things that pop up on bikes all the time. Go to Park Tools and look at their repair guide. It's an invaluable tool in itself. You are on your way towards understanding the bike but realize that the only partner in this relationship with a brain is you The bike is a lump of metal. Nothing on it is out to do you harm.

operator

heheh

loose/lose, brake/break gets me more. But peddle is close.

Halloween

Is this WSBWD* with the OP's question?
















*What Sheldon Brown Would Do

raster

posting in an epic thread.

Diggidy

Haha this thread is epic. Apparently I don't know how to spell PEDAL correctly.

Anyways, I went for like a 6 mile ride today and the chain suck wasn't happening, and the creaking wasn't horrible, but I still have the slipping in first gear and ONLY first gear. My chain rings are pretty beat up though, I tried to take some pictures on my phone but I just got it and don't know how to use it yet. I can't find any burs though, but the teeth are looking pretty worn; is that normal for teeth to wear badly with only 4-5 months of moderate difficulty ride? I really don't remember the chain rings smashing anything, because I really don't ride over anything that would put my bottom bracket that low to the ground.

Rev.Chuck

Nope, because Sheldon only posts when he can redirect to his shops catalog site. (This gets any other shop guys post deleted, regardess of its value)

Wordbiker

In a word: Yes.

I have been going through our rental bikes for this season, and it is surprising how much damage just a few months of inexperienced customers ripping around on them like a rental car, careless of what gear combos they're using, how hard they're shifting or what they're running into/over/across will do to a drivetrain.

I know it sounds like I'm just being harsh to you Diggity, but I'd wager nearly everyone just getting into bikes goes through the same thing: You buy a quality bike, ride the stuffing out of it because that's what it's for, get upset, disappointed and frustrated at not understanding why this is happening to you, then later realize that some refinements in technique will save you wear and tear on expensive components, and prolong the necessity of replacing them. Once the costly lessons are learned, you post in a forum like this, or talk to experienced friends, or do some independent study and find out that a little knowledge gained can save a real bundle. Your skills improve, your technique gains some finesse, and ultimately your pocketbook thanks you. I truly do hope that you can get a grasp on bicycle mechanics to the point that you no longer feel victimized, rather that you will feel some empowerment and confidence in your ability to master a very simple, yet very subtly beautiful form of transporting your body as well as your soul.

OK, so someone using 'peddle' for 'pedal' bugs me, especially someone claiming to be headed to college. That makes me upset with the public school system, not the OP.

As much as I respect Sheldon's body of work for his chosen niche of cycling, I do not claim to, nor ever hope to be Sheldon. What I really don't understand is equating him with deity for sharing knowledge that is not entirely his own, nor is it complete.

Diggidy

I'm not really frustrated because the bike isn't working properly 100% of the time because I'm not a seasoned rider; it's just that I have tried fixing things on it, and taken it to my LBS more than once and the problems are still coming back. I would gladly learn to fix anything on a bike so I don't have to be reliant on my LBS to do thing, but when they can't even figure out what's wrong it makes learning bicycle maintenance almost impossible.

DMF 

The bike is possessed.

The Council has been notified. You will soon receive a visitor.

Moose

Simply not true.

He does link to his articles regularly, but not so often to his catalog.

Anyway...you're a mod, delete away if you think he's spamming. Your salty remarks are unbecoming of your stellar reputation as a valuable resource and all around good guy. (my honest opinion, no snarkyness intended).

operator

Sounds like someone is jealous. Especially when the quoted post isn't even true.

DMF 

Well, there's not all that much separation between Sheldon' and Harris' site contents. And when I've seen Sheldon reference a Harris entry (rarely) it's as an example, not as a "buy this".

I'd say this is only an issue if enforcement against others is too draconian - something that we non-mods can't see. (I could readily believe it, though, since there are so few borderline examples here.)

Since none of us can comment intelligently, let's drop it, say wot?

Wordbiker

I feel for you Diggity. You're at a tough part of the learning curve, but I don't see the shop not being able to fix your issues...it's probably more likely that they're not willing to. As wrenches, we have to make a call whether or not an issue falls under "materials and worksmanship" or wear and tear. Manufacturers will only reimburse a shop for the former. If a shop deigns to take care of the latter, it comes directly out of their pockets, and understandably most are a bit gun shy to offer that frivolously. It tends to take all the profit out of the business.

Still, most shops do value you as a customer and will do their best to keep you coming back, hopefully not just for dealing with frustrating issues, but for advice, upgrades, accessories and as a fellow cyclist, neighbor and friend.

DMF 

Do you demand that they fix them free? Other than the crank arm, what you describe comes under ongoing (and thus ££) maintenance.

Diggidy

It's a Trek, so it's under warranty.

sykerocker 

Diggidy,

Understand that the concept of warranty (I used to work for a Schwinn/Raleigh dealer, I now work for a Honda motorcycle shop - and they're not that different) is a one word definition for "coverage for material and workmanship failure" and absolutely nothing else. And a dealer can only back the warranty if the manufacturer is backing him, as in paying him for the repair time that you don't have to pay for.

In most situations, the mechanic does an assessment of the situation, reports to the company, who comes back with a 'yay or nay' on the job. And, at that point warranty is decided. A failure on a bike is not automatically warranty - something that I spent two long years manning the service desk at my dealership trying to politely explain to angry customers, who were determined that whatever was wrong was supposed to be fixed for free.

In fact, nothing is automatically warranty until the dealership reports back to the manufacturer - and I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer has to keep the warranted part until the regional rep's next visit, so he can actually see what the manufacturer is going to pay for. By the way, if upon that inspection the rep decides that it was customer abuse after all, and the dealer's already done the work expecting warranty payment, he's screwed.

DMF 

Likewise the paperwork on a "warranty repair" can be more expensive than just doing the repair. Either way the shop eats it.

If you tell them that you'll pay them for their time, they might actually take the time to fix it.

Rev.Chuck

It simply is true. I am a mod and have been one for quite a while(And I see a lot more posts than you do). I have brought up Sheldons frequent links to his commercial site( Thru the other mods to remove any inpropriety, at which point he got pretty petulant). The lead mod(now admin) had no problem with Sheldon linking to his website but said he would remove my links should I put them up when responding to a post(Something I never considered, because I do not come here to make money).((DMF, there are many Sheldon responses that go directly to a page with a cart and CC page. If you link to a page with a break down and you click on one of the items and it drops you to a cart, that is a sale page. I do that, Waldo does that, wordbiker does that, we get our post deleted. (For what it is worth, none of us do that, we are not here to make a buck, but try and help because that is a way to give back. I also don't quote stuff without credit, another interesting part of Sheldons site(Yes, Sheldon cribs others work without credit)
I don't have a problem with Sheldon, but he does some shady **** I would never do. And people love him for it. Pretty annoying. You always want the guy that does right to win, but that does not happen on BikeForums. Look up RyanF, or botto. *******s that just enough people think are great to make any moderating of them cause an uproar.

Sadly, my stellar rep counts for little, as when I ask someone to not do something or think twice before they hack on the LBS, they still rant away. Or act like an obtuse fool. Moderating sucks. Pretty tired of it really.
And Sheldon does get a pass here no other shop or industry person gets.(Except maybe BD, but lots of people will ***** themselves for a dollar)