Snap-on tools??
02-04-08 | 06:05 AM
#51
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From: Ohio
I've been curious about tools too and have been researching the topic. At best I can figure on quality rankings is (best to least):
Top: Snap On
Middle (still good, but not as expensive): MAC, Matco, Cornwell
Lower: Craftsman, SK
Even lower: Kobalt, Husky
I can't figure where Proto (Stanley) goes. It's more difficult ranking manufactures because of recent "out sourcing", the old rules don't seem to apply anymore and some loyal old time users are disappointed.
On the other side, most mechanics seem to mix tool suppliers. I also kept reading the phrase "grow legs", as in "tools seem to grow legs and walk off on their own". People borrow them and don't return them. So I came up with the two tool box strategy. One is for me, locked, hidden and few know about. The other, old crappy and found tools that I'll lend out. If people don't return those, I don't care because I never use that box. I find a lot of tools while riding, at least one socket a week and those go in the crappy tool box. If you're going to start investing in quality tools I think you need to seriously consider this. What's the use of getting a ratchet set when you'll use mainly four or five sockets and some one had borrowed and not returned them. Or a neighbor borrows a screw driver and later you find out he was prying off paint can lids or something non screw related. Or someone uses your torque wrench to loosen seized bolts cause it's the biggest looking wrench you have. These things are going to happen and you're not going to find out until the time you really need to use that particular tool.
Top: Snap On
Middle (still good, but not as expensive): MAC, Matco, Cornwell
Lower: Craftsman, SK
Even lower: Kobalt, Husky
I can't figure where Proto (Stanley) goes. It's more difficult ranking manufactures because of recent "out sourcing", the old rules don't seem to apply anymore and some loyal old time users are disappointed.
On the other side, most mechanics seem to mix tool suppliers. I also kept reading the phrase "grow legs", as in "tools seem to grow legs and walk off on their own". People borrow them and don't return them. So I came up with the two tool box strategy. One is for me, locked, hidden and few know about. The other, old crappy and found tools that I'll lend out. If people don't return those, I don't care because I never use that box. I find a lot of tools while riding, at least one socket a week and those go in the crappy tool box. If you're going to start investing in quality tools I think you need to seriously consider this. What's the use of getting a ratchet set when you'll use mainly four or five sockets and some one had borrowed and not returned them. Or a neighbor borrows a screw driver and later you find out he was prying off paint can lids or something non screw related. Or someone uses your torque wrench to loosen seized bolts cause it's the biggest looking wrench you have. These things are going to happen and you're not going to find out until the time you really need to use that particular tool.
02-04-08 | 08:35 AM
#52
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
I don't know where Proto fits in the hierarchy these days but it used to be in the second tier you list, right below Snap-On.
02-04-08 | 09:29 AM
#53
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I'd move SK up a level.
I don't know how good/bad Proto are anymore, but they used to be (IMO) as good as Snap-On, just cheaper.
02-04-08 | 10:06 AM
#54
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GreatNeck tools all the way for me. Nobody will steal them and most people wont even hold one. Sometimes other mech's will feel sorry for me and give me a tool. If you go this way make sure that you don't let the clients see your tools because it might scare them off.
02-04-08 | 10:50 AM
#55
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From: The Sunny South
02-04-08 | 11:43 AM
#56
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From: Bucks County, PA
I don't see that bike wrenching requires high quality tools. You do need a lot of specialty tools, but for wrenches and sockets, just about anything will do. Craftsman should be more than adequate.
02-04-08 | 06:11 PM
#58
Spin Forest! Spin!
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From: Arrid Zone-a
Bikes: I used to have many. And I Will again.
Allegedly Danaher, maker of Armstrong, Matco, K-D, Allen, also make the OEM Craftsman mechanics tools (I'm limiting that to wrenches and socketry). This discussion comes up a lot on other forums which I frequent.
I own a little of everything. Not literally, but I have a little bit of Snap-on, Armstrong, Craftsman, Elora, S-K, etc. In my opinion, they are all about the same, as far as getting jobs done. It is a tool, use it to get the job done. I have no qualms when I saw off the open end part of a Craftsman combination wrench so I can slip a cheater pipe on it to loosen a hard to reach nut. The warranty is now invalid, but the time and frustration saved on a paying job was more than worth the cost of a $4.00 wrench. I might be a little hesitant to do the same on a Snap-on or Armstrong wrench, just because they are nicer.
These days I often get frustrated with my local Sears, because they don't have what I need when I need it. I've got a good assortment of tools (and have wrenched on cars for a couple of decades, as an amateur) but sometimes I need a tool I don't have, so I buy them as I need them. I've even bought Duralast (gasp!) tools at the local Autozone. They actually look very well made, in Taiwan.
If you feel that most expensive=the best, then I won't try to convince you otherwise. Is the Snap-On truck there for you on the weekends when you need him most? Personally, I think from the actual use of the tools, you'll find little difference among tools of similar origin. Expensive tools have a lifetime warranty. Some cheaper tools have a lifetime warranty. The cheapest tools usually let you down.
All the tools made in so called "first world" nations are of comparable quality. They all screw up sometimes, hence the nicknames like Snap-off and Crapsman. Nobody gets it right all the time.
I will buy tools anywhere. Pawn shops, auto stores, flea markets, friends. I stick to well known brands that back them with a warranty. I know my stash of tools is a little less likely to grow legs when they are all different brands and don't all match. Sometimes they don't make them like they used to. Sometimes this is a good thing, sometimes it is a bad thing.
Good tools cost money. After that, it is all diminishing returns.
I own a little of everything. Not literally, but I have a little bit of Snap-on, Armstrong, Craftsman, Elora, S-K, etc. In my opinion, they are all about the same, as far as getting jobs done. It is a tool, use it to get the job done. I have no qualms when I saw off the open end part of a Craftsman combination wrench so I can slip a cheater pipe on it to loosen a hard to reach nut. The warranty is now invalid, but the time and frustration saved on a paying job was more than worth the cost of a $4.00 wrench. I might be a little hesitant to do the same on a Snap-on or Armstrong wrench, just because they are nicer.
These days I often get frustrated with my local Sears, because they don't have what I need when I need it. I've got a good assortment of tools (and have wrenched on cars for a couple of decades, as an amateur) but sometimes I need a tool I don't have, so I buy them as I need them. I've even bought Duralast (gasp!) tools at the local Autozone. They actually look very well made, in Taiwan.
If you feel that most expensive=the best, then I won't try to convince you otherwise. Is the Snap-On truck there for you on the weekends when you need him most? Personally, I think from the actual use of the tools, you'll find little difference among tools of similar origin. Expensive tools have a lifetime warranty. Some cheaper tools have a lifetime warranty. The cheapest tools usually let you down.
All the tools made in so called "first world" nations are of comparable quality. They all screw up sometimes, hence the nicknames like Snap-off and Crapsman. Nobody gets it right all the time.
I will buy tools anywhere. Pawn shops, auto stores, flea markets, friends. I stick to well known brands that back them with a warranty. I know my stash of tools is a little less likely to grow legs when they are all different brands and don't all match. Sometimes they don't make them like they used to. Sometimes this is a good thing, sometimes it is a bad thing.
Good tools cost money. After that, it is all diminishing returns.
You said it best!
02-04-08 | 07:00 PM
#59
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Further reading for the hard core tool enthusiast
From another forum:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ad.php?t=81970
and:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ad.php?t=82667
and one more:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ad.php?t=82541
Granted, it is another internet forum, so take anything with skepticism, but I really think some of these guys know what they are talking about.
The short version: the tool industry is very incestuous. The major players in the US are Stanley (Proto and the like), Danaher (mentioned previously in this thread) and Snap-on (who also now owns Williams [edited, said Armstrong]). A lot of different branded tools are made by just a few players.
Edit: I lied, here is one more link:
https://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/whotools.html
further edit: I will say though, for years(until 1995), Snap-on produced the best calendar. At least if you're attracted to pretty women.
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ad.php?t=81970
and:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ad.php?t=82667
and one more:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ad.php?t=82541
Granted, it is another internet forum, so take anything with skepticism, but I really think some of these guys know what they are talking about.
The short version: the tool industry is very incestuous. The major players in the US are Stanley (Proto and the like), Danaher (mentioned previously in this thread) and Snap-on (who also now owns Williams [edited, said Armstrong]). A lot of different branded tools are made by just a few players.
Edit: I lied, here is one more link:
https://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/whotools.html
further edit: I will say though, for years(until 1995), Snap-on produced the best calendar. At least if you're attracted to pretty women.
Last edited by krome; 02-04-08 at 09:27 PM. Reason: link added, calendar info
02-04-08 | 10:36 PM
#60
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Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Athens, Ohio
Bikes: Custom Custom Custom
Man, the tool world is worse than Shimano vs Campy vs Sram. I went ahead and bought a socket set and ratchet from Snap on online.
The truth is, I live in the middle of no where. The Sears has no tools and the Lowes has no tools. If I were to break a wrench or socket, I'd still have to wait and send it in or drive 80 miles.
The truth is, I live in the middle of no where. The Sears has no tools and the Lowes has no tools. If I were to break a wrench or socket, I'd still have to wait and send it in or drive 80 miles.
02-04-08 | 11:10 PM
#61
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,200
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From: Southern California
From another forum:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ad.php?t=81970
and:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ad.php?t=82667
and one more:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ad.php?t=82541
...
https://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/whotools.html
further edit: I will say though, for years(until 1995), Snap-on produced the best calendar. At least if you're attracted to pretty women.
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ad.php?t=81970
and:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ad.php?t=82667
and one more:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ad.php?t=82541
...
https://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/whotools.html
further edit: I will say though, for years(until 1995), Snap-on produced the best calendar. At least if you're attracted to pretty women.
Holy smokes, I thought we were nutty with our "best chain lube", "degrease a new chain", and "WD40 as a lubricant" threads! I guess every commnunity has these third-rail topics. Actually, very good information in the above posted threads.
Oh yeah, the Snap-On calendars hanging behind the parts counter or in the tool room....
02-04-08 | 11:51 PM
#62
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Holy smokes, I thought we were nutty with our "best chain lube", "degrease a new chain", and "WD40 as a lubricant" threads! I guess every commnunity has these third-rail topics. Actually, very good information in the above posted threads.
Oh yeah, the Snap-On calendars hanging behind the parts counter or in the tool room....
Oh yeah, the Snap-On calendars hanging behind the parts counter or in the tool room....
02-05-08 | 12:04 AM
#63
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From: Rock Island, IL
Bikes: LeMond Chambery
I have a Blue Point Tool box and several air tools, but for hand tools I have mostly Snap-On and a few Mac tools.
IMO Snap-On is the highest quality, with Mac a close second.
02-05-08 | 01:53 PM
#64
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From: Dallas
Bikes: 03 Raleigh Professional (steel)
Yep, ever see a Chrysler or Ford distributor wrench? In the '60's both Ford and Chrylsler V-8's had the distributor hold down bolts buried at the base and they could not be loosened with any normal box, open end or ratchet in any normal configuration. Proto, and probably some others like Snap-On, made C-shaped box wrenches just for this use. I don't recall what they cost (I had the Chrysler version for my Dodge 340), but it wasn't that much.
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02-05-08 | 05:28 PM
#65
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From: Boone NC USA
Bikes: Bianchi hybrid. Dunelt 3-sp. Raleigh basket case. Wanting a Roadster.
If you think Snap On is worth it, then they are. If you think they are not worth it, then they aren't. Craftsman has the advantage that when you buy the big sets you get an real serious discount. Snap On and the ilk has the advantage that they come to you, no mean disadvantage when the boss is not going to let you off work to go get a replacement. But in my experience the real advantage of SO and Mac is when your employer will agree to let you pay for them out of your earnings via a payroll deduction.
I am trying to think how many sets of tools I have had? Let's see?
1. First there were some cheap cast ones I had as a kid.
2. Then there where the ones the Air Force issued me. Ever seen a hundred dollar pair of needle nose pliers, they were exactly the same as the ones you could buy in the hardware store for $10 which I found out when mine disappeared and I was faced with paying the AF $100 for replacements, I bought a pair in town and told my sergeant I had found them.
3. Then I has a mixed set of Craftsman and Snap On, I found that I liked the Snap On socket sets better, and the Craftsman flat wrenches better.
7. Next was a set of Proto that I had to buy from my employer if I wanted the job, I think he marked them up a bit.
8. Then there was a few hundred bucks worth of Craftsman that were stolen out of my car.
9. And my electricians tools mostly Klein and Greenley.
10. Now I have a Craftsman-roll around with mostly craftsman but also whatever was cheaper that would do the job, and a box of Park bicycle tools.
12. Then there are the specialized tools, carpentry, drywall, woodworking (I even have an expensive router I haven't gotten around to using, can not say the same for the cheap one I had a couple decades back), electronics tools (including a battery powered oscilloscope), and who knows what else.
How many was that? Just went back and stuck numbers in, so.... 12! More than I would have thought. Tools and books, if I still had all of them I have bought over the years I would need a barn to keep them in.
Anyway from my experience any tool that does the job without doing a job on you is a good tool.
02-05-08 | 05:42 PM
#66
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From: Boone NC USA
Bikes: Bianchi hybrid. Dunelt 3-sp. Raleigh basket case. Wanting a Roadster.
1. Expensive tools (Snap On, Mac, SK Professional and Proto Professional in the old days).
2. Good tools (Craftsman, SK, Proto, etc)
3. Cheap tools (Stanley and the ilk, Stanley once was in the 2 catagory, store brands, etc.)
4. Junk tools (no name cast pot metal)
1 buy if you insist. But,
2 will do the job just fine.
3 is for tools you only use occasionally.
4 is for giving to people you hate.
02-06-08 | 05:15 PM
#67
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From: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Bikes: 84 Trek 660 Suntour Superbe; 87 Giant Rincon Shimano XT; 07 Mercian Vincitore Campy Veloce
Yep, ever see a Chrysler or Ford distributor wrench? In those days before electronic ignition, you replaced the distributor points and retimed the car about every 10,000 miles so, if you did your own wrenching, one of these was a necessity.
Froze: thanks for the trip down memory lane. I had almost forgotten I still have one of those.
Froze: thanks for the trip down memory lane. I had almost forgotten I still have one of those.
Now a days I replace my points with Pertronics electronic points that eliminate the need to replace and adjust points yet retains the stock distributor, and yet can be easily switched back to the mechanical points in less then 5 minutes.
02-06-08 | 05:22 PM
#68
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From: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Bikes: 84 Trek 660 Suntour Superbe; 87 Giant Rincon Shimano XT; 07 Mercian Vincitore Campy Veloce
Man, the tool world is worse than Shimano vs Campy vs Sram. I went ahead and bought a socket set and ratchet from Snap on online.
The truth is, I live in the middle of no where. The Sears has no tools and the Lowes has no tools. If I were to break a wrench or socket, I'd still have to wait and send it in or drive 80 miles.
The truth is, I live in the middle of no where. The Sears has no tools and the Lowes has no tools. If I were to break a wrench or socket, I'd still have to wait and send it in or drive 80 miles.
02-06-08 | 06:40 PM
#69
Boosted Mr2
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From: NYC
Bikes: Klein's Merlin's
... hmm mostly snap-on in my tool box.. with a few S-K stuff..
when i started out it was craftsman tools.. but they kepted on breaking over an over.. an the snap on stuff takes forever to break..
when i started out it was craftsman tools.. but they kepted on breaking over an over.. an the snap on stuff takes forever to break..
Last edited by henria86; 02-06-08 at 06:45 PM.
02-06-08 | 07:18 PM
#70
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From: Bangkok, that's in Thailand. No, I said "Thailand" not "Taiwan".
Bikes: PUCH-Pacifica, Felt-TK2, Raleigh-Tandem, Kestrel-200, And several other projects (New and old)
I was always taught to buy the best the least rather than buy the least as often as you need.
I'd have to say that my favourite and likely most important tool is my dremel. It's how I write my name on all of my things, they tend to walk off less and there have been many occasions where they've found their way home after having done so.
I'd have to say that my favourite and likely most important tool is my dremel. It's how I write my name on all of my things, they tend to walk off less and there have been many occasions where they've found their way home after having done so.
02-06-08 | 08:55 PM
#71
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From: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Bikes: 84 Trek 660 Suntour Superbe; 87 Giant Rincon Shimano XT; 07 Mercian Vincitore Campy Veloce
With cycling your not going to stress out even a cheapo Walmart tool set!
I believe you should only buy what your intended use is for. For example; if your going to take pictures of your family and outings with them and not to make a living with it, would you buy a $5,000 pro-camera just because you were taught to buy the best? Unless you got more money then sense then your going to buy a camera that fits your budget for your needs; and maybe a $70 camera would be too cheap, but a $800 camera would be expensive enough to offer plenty of quality for your needs.
The same is true with tools, if your using your tools to make a living then you need the quality of Snap-On (besides Snap-On offers payment plans for mechanics), but if your just dinking around at home then Snap-on is an overkill. I've got some tools that are 40 years old and they never broke. I broke a 1/2 ratchet once because I didn't have breaker bar so I attached a pipe to the end of the ratchet to bust some head bolts! The darn ratchet got all the bolts off except the last one when the head on the ratchet finally had enough, at which time I went out and bought a breaker bar-this was 40 years ago and I still have the replacement tools; but I don't use either often because I don't work on cars for a living so I didn't buy the most expensive I got mid grade(?) tools from Challenger.
I like battery operated drills, but I'm not a construction worker so I don't have the newer 36 volt models that a construction worker might need, mine is just a modest 14.4 volt Bosch that has plenty of power for around the house and car stuff without being bulky.
My point is you shouldn't buy more tool then you need.
Last edited by froze; 02-07-08 at 03:55 AM.
02-06-08 | 10:01 PM
#72
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From: Athens, Ohio
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02-06-08 | 10:12 PM
#74
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Well much like the responses in this whole thread, it varies. Some like Snapon, some get whatever is cheap. One mechanic I talked to showed me his 75 year old snap on wrench that was passed on from his grandfather.
02-07-08 | 03:49 AM
#75
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From: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Bikes: 84 Trek 660 Suntour Superbe; 87 Giant Rincon Shimano XT; 07 Mercian Vincitore Campy Veloce
Your right! BUT, if your wrenching your own bike (and doing regular maintenance) and not some rusted heap you found somewhere those items should not be on that tight. My first 10 speed (a Puch) I bought used, while not rusted, refused to let go of it's pedals no matter how much penetrating oil I used or pressure I applied. Eventually I had to drill the damm things out!
