Mother of All Stuck Seatposts!
11-29-08, 08:19 PM
#26
Thrifty Bill
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PB Blaster can be found at Walmart or Big Lots.
11-29-08, 08:21 PM
#27
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since you still have a little post sticking out you may want to consider having a T hndle welded to the post to give you something to work with. then plug the bottom of the seat tube with a plug from inside the b.b. shell and fill with amonia. put a heat gun on it or a tourch to help warm up the amonia. do this outside so you can still breath. as the heat from the heatsorse warms the amonia and outer tube tap on the seat post and your new t handle so that it will vibrate then jently twist it back and forth eventually this will break the bond and you will be able to remove it. the heat will expand the seat tube and the amonia removes the corsion from the post that is holding it in.
11-29-08, 09:44 PM
#28
use your best eye
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Why not use an easyout/bolt extractor? Probably will need a fairly big one. Get it started inside the seat tube stub, then clamp it (the end of the extractor) in a vice. Rotate the frame around it, good leverage that way.
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11-29-08, 10:38 PM
#29
Stand & Jump!
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Lye eats aluminum, it doesn't work like a penetrating fluid. You can dissolve it easily if you can cap the top, put some lye in there, after a couple days check it and if it's not quite gone put some more in there, etc. It takes time, it looks like you might have put some lye in there and expected it to loosen it up? Don't work that way, just eats it from the inside out.
I have seen worse, I had an old LeJune that sat in a field for who knows how long, and I got it out. it took two weeks.
Probably the cheapest route would be to keep up with the hacksaw blade. I have drilled/bored out the post to make it thinner, but I don't like that because the post sections seem to come out better thick. when they are thin they bend,peel and stick.
If you have access to a bench grinder then grind each blade down on hte back untill it fits nicely in the post. I don't wrap the handle to protect my hands because I use both ends of the blade to maximise the usefullness of the blade for my money. push down on the down stroke when the teeth are facing away from you and push down on the upstroke when the teeth are facing you. go slowly and evenly even when you are not close to the frame. that helps the cut stay even with the frame so that you have less evening/leveling out to do when you are closer to the end and it is harder not to score the inside of the seat tube. It also keeps the tooth wear down a tiny bit and keeps the alluminum from loading up the teeth.
When you are close to the steel of the seat tube, start taking out the blade every few strokes and seeing how it looks. go very slowly at this point and use short strokes that focus the pressure either top or bottom depending on where the metal needs to come off.
I do the quartering method when cutting, then start bisecting the quarters and then somtimes eighths in an alternating pattern, like you would tighten lug nuts on a car tire. leave an uncut area at the groove in the seat tube for as long as possible.
Go to the closest Napa(auto parts store)to you. Don't go to O"rileys or any botique auto store that sells more air foils and fake muffler ends than they do U joints. Napa generaly has more knowlegable employees to help. Ask for PB spray solvent. The can looks like an obnoxious infomercial. you'll know what I mean when you see it. start squirting that on about twice a day, even while you are using the hacksaw. the vibration from the sawing will help the spray penatrate just as well as tapping, but you can still tap it if you want to a few times when you spray it on right before bed.
After you get a few cuts, try to knock a section ot the post loose by tapping it with a chisel and mallet at the groove in the seat post, and at the top of the exposed post that you have closest to that point. don't hit it real hard thinking that you will be saving time. fifty taps beats five times wailing on it. you may tap it a few times on the top of all the grooves just to help the loosening proccess, keep squirting pb on it and walk away if you get frustrated. start again the next day or so. this part can take a long time as well. When you get part of the post loose then start tapping the sections on each side of the loose(or removed) part at an angle, with the striking force moving it into the gap or loose section.
when it all seems pretty loose, but you can't get enough of a grip on it to force it out, you will need somthing to use as a sort of reversing hammer. I use a slender steel pipe with a coupleing on it that gives it a lip. it fits into whats left of the post, and it is slid up holding it so that the lip stikes the bottom of a section of the post. I generaly start working it around, hit one side then the other , moving in a slow circle. don't hit hard, just hit steady. you might find a peice of 1/4" or so steel rod and bend and grind one end to a very sharp angle and bend a handle in the opposite direction of the hook on the other end so that you can direct the impact point of the angled end on the post.
Most all the gran turismos I have dealt with have a rather short sr seat post, so hopefully you will have only four to six inches to go through. I think that they are a great frame and it would be a shame to mess it up. DO NOT USE a sawzall. its hard to controll and lazy. way to easy to mess up the frame. A heat gun helps.
another thing I have done is to use what I call a frost heave method. pack the seatpost in ice for fifteen minutes and then pull it out and pour boiling water on it. do that several times. it helps, but I don't know if its reall good for the frame itself.
Probably the cheapest route would be to keep up with the hacksaw blade. I have drilled/bored out the post to make it thinner, but I don't like that because the post sections seem to come out better thick. when they are thin they bend,peel and stick.
If you have access to a bench grinder then grind each blade down on hte back untill it fits nicely in the post. I don't wrap the handle to protect my hands because I use both ends of the blade to maximise the usefullness of the blade for my money. push down on the down stroke when the teeth are facing away from you and push down on the upstroke when the teeth are facing you. go slowly and evenly even when you are not close to the frame. that helps the cut stay even with the frame so that you have less evening/leveling out to do when you are closer to the end and it is harder not to score the inside of the seat tube. It also keeps the tooth wear down a tiny bit and keeps the alluminum from loading up the teeth.
When you are close to the steel of the seat tube, start taking out the blade every few strokes and seeing how it looks. go very slowly at this point and use short strokes that focus the pressure either top or bottom depending on where the metal needs to come off.
I do the quartering method when cutting, then start bisecting the quarters and then somtimes eighths in an alternating pattern, like you would tighten lug nuts on a car tire. leave an uncut area at the groove in the seat tube for as long as possible.
Go to the closest Napa(auto parts store)to you. Don't go to O"rileys or any botique auto store that sells more air foils and fake muffler ends than they do U joints. Napa generaly has more knowlegable employees to help. Ask for PB spray solvent. The can looks like an obnoxious infomercial. you'll know what I mean when you see it. start squirting that on about twice a day, even while you are using the hacksaw. the vibration from the sawing will help the spray penatrate just as well as tapping, but you can still tap it if you want to a few times when you spray it on right before bed.
After you get a few cuts, try to knock a section ot the post loose by tapping it with a chisel and mallet at the groove in the seat post, and at the top of the exposed post that you have closest to that point. don't hit it real hard thinking that you will be saving time. fifty taps beats five times wailing on it. you may tap it a few times on the top of all the grooves just to help the loosening proccess, keep squirting pb on it and walk away if you get frustrated. start again the next day or so. this part can take a long time as well. When you get part of the post loose then start tapping the sections on each side of the loose(or removed) part at an angle, with the striking force moving it into the gap or loose section.
when it all seems pretty loose, but you can't get enough of a grip on it to force it out, you will need somthing to use as a sort of reversing hammer. I use a slender steel pipe with a coupleing on it that gives it a lip. it fits into whats left of the post, and it is slid up holding it so that the lip stikes the bottom of a section of the post. I generaly start working it around, hit one side then the other , moving in a slow circle. don't hit hard, just hit steady. you might find a peice of 1/4" or so steel rod and bend and grind one end to a very sharp angle and bend a handle in the opposite direction of the hook on the other end so that you can direct the impact point of the angled end on the post.
Most all the gran turismos I have dealt with have a rather short sr seat post, so hopefully you will have only four to six inches to go through. I think that they are a great frame and it would be a shame to mess it up. DO NOT USE a sawzall. its hard to controll and lazy. way to easy to mess up the frame. A heat gun helps.
another thing I have done is to use what I call a frost heave method. pack the seatpost in ice for fifteen minutes and then pull it out and pour boiling water on it. do that several times. it helps, but I don't know if its reall good for the frame itself.
I've been sawing at the post for about three days now, and I have two good-sized grooves in the post. You're right about the post being about six inches long; it's a lot of material to get through. I think that the reverse hammer with a piece of steel rod will be really useful here. I didn't want to take a hammer to it at all; I would inevitably damage the frame, or just drive it in deeper. Everyone, thanks for your help. I'll post an update in a month or so when I finally get the damn thing out
.
11-30-08, 12:11 AM
#30
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IMHO . . .
1) Clean off all residue from previous "operations".
2) Flood the area with PB Blaster or other fine chemical.
3) Fix the frame securly to a bench or hold it within a vise.
4) A hacksaw or Sawzall blade in a handle to protect your hand
with a resonable number of TPI. (teeth per inch) Aluminium is a
soft metal, and with at least 4" of cutting length, less TPI will
allow greater "load-up", along with a deeper cut.
5) Tape a magnet below where the blade exits the seat tube
to show you when/if the steel, rather than the aluminium
is being taken.
6) Long, slow straight cuts rather than quick ones will allow
more control with pressure on the "cut", stroke, less on the back-out.
7) At the least, six cuts should be attempted, cutting completely
through the seat post.
8) Keep the area flooded with PB Blaster.
9) A ROUND NOSE CHISEL should then be used to collapse-in one
of the "segments", completely, afterwhich skip a segment and do
the next to it.
10) It will become easier as you go along, due to the chemical being
allowed into the troubled area due to the vibration while using the
hammer/chisel.
11) Cleanup of the inner tube area could be accomplished with a
sand cloth (plumbing item) held in a wooden dowel cut at it's end.
Regards,
J T
1) Clean off all residue from previous "operations".
2) Flood the area with PB Blaster or other fine chemical.
3) Fix the frame securly to a bench or hold it within a vise.
4) A hacksaw or Sawzall blade in a handle to protect your hand
with a resonable number of TPI. (teeth per inch) Aluminium is a
soft metal, and with at least 4" of cutting length, less TPI will
allow greater "load-up", along with a deeper cut.
5) Tape a magnet below where the blade exits the seat tube
to show you when/if the steel, rather than the aluminium
is being taken.
6) Long, slow straight cuts rather than quick ones will allow
more control with pressure on the "cut", stroke, less on the back-out.
7) At the least, six cuts should be attempted, cutting completely
through the seat post.
8) Keep the area flooded with PB Blaster.
9) A ROUND NOSE CHISEL should then be used to collapse-in one
of the "segments", completely, afterwhich skip a segment and do
the next to it.
10) It will become easier as you go along, due to the chemical being
allowed into the troubled area due to the vibration while using the
hammer/chisel.
11) Cleanup of the inner tube area could be accomplished with a
sand cloth (plumbing item) held in a wooden dowel cut at it's end.
Regards,
J T
11-30-08, 12:55 AM
#31
Great State of Varmint
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Good Lord! It's become a chemistry experiment now and headed for nuclear physics! I hope to see it come out soon.
11-30-08, 11:30 AM
#32
Procrastinateur supreme
Just before you bring on the fast neutrons, try a half liter of liquid nitrogen applied just to the nubbin. Fashion a shallow styro container that will allow you to invert the frame and hold it so the post end is in the liquid. Let it boil so it quiets down so the post really starts to give up all its' heat. It should shrink enough to release itself from the steel.
Try to avoid freezing your body parts - they don't like that at all.
Try to avoid freezing your body parts - they don't like that at all.
11-30-08, 12:03 PM
#33
surly old man
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jim
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11-30-08, 12:12 PM
#34
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The round nose chisel he is referring to is called a bushing chisel available from tool dealers like snap on etc.
) A ROUND NOSE CHISEL should then be used to collapse-in one
of the "segments", completely, afterwhich skip a segment and do
the next to
) A ROUND NOSE CHISEL should then be used to collapse-in one
of the "segments", completely, afterwhich skip a segment and do
the next to
11-30-08, 12:44 PM
#35
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I read good things about Kroil penetrating lubricants. It seems to be one of the preferred penetrating lubricants in engine mechanic circles.
11-30-08, 02:07 PM
#36
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If you already have ruined paint, I would take a torch to it. Did that with my tandem.
11-30-08, 02:21 PM
#37
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
This rates as the nastiest job of them all along with seized bottom brackets.
WD40 and a torch can work wonders... it is what I used when I was working in the machine shop to free seized parts.
I did of course use a tiger torch and a 20 pound sledge hammer in the machine shop.
Spray Wd40 between the seatpost and seatube as it should penetrate and heat it well... it will expand and even burn but often frees things up pretty nicely.
A few taps with a hammer might be needed and being able to grab the post securely is also essential...flipping the bike and putting the protruding part of the seatpost in a vice works as then you can get better leverage although you have to be careful doing this as you do not want to bend the frame
WD40 and a torch can work wonders... it is what I used when I was working in the machine shop to free seized parts.
I did of course use a tiger torch and a 20 pound sledge hammer in the machine shop.
Spray Wd40 between the seatpost and seatube as it should penetrate and heat it well... it will expand and even burn but often frees things up pretty nicely.
A few taps with a hammer might be needed and being able to grab the post securely is also essential...flipping the bike and putting the protruding part of the seatpost in a vice works as then you can get better leverage although you have to be careful doing this as you do not want to bend the frame
12-01-08, 10:08 AM
#38
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My wife's recommendation is to get a really tiny seatpost to stick inside the old seatpost!
12-01-08, 10:54 AM
#39
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Tried the lye last week. I followed this guy's instructions, but just didn't melt away anything. Plugged the frame with one of those black flask stoppers, but it just wasn't in the cards...https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/seatpin-rest.html
I used a liquid drain cleaner. If you were mixing your own stuff you might try already mixed stuff. I got it at a place that sells janitor supplies and it sez on the bottle "contains caustic lye". Worked like slow magic.
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12-01-08, 05:12 PM
#40
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Use a heat gun or hair drier, or other heat source to heat the seat tube up. Then jam a plug into the seat tube just past the bottom of the seatpost, and put chips of dry ice into the interior of the seat post. That is the double whammy.
Or just keep cutting.
Or just keep cutting.
01-07-09, 03:47 PM
#41
I make stuff up
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OK, it's been over a month! Tell us what happened.
01-07-09, 05:22 PM
#42
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Liquid nitrogen might not be the easiest stuff to find - you'd have to have a gas supply house or welding supplier around to be able to buy the stuff without some helpful friends in a research lab or possibly a hospital. What might be easier would be dry ice - not as cold but you can find it at the grocery store in some places. Get yourself a bucket of denatured alcohol or acetone (solvent section of the paint aisle) and start dropping in chunks of dry ice. When you get to the point that there are slowly bubbling chunks left at the bottom of the bucket, then the liquid is down to around -70 deg C. You can pour that into the hole to see if anything moves. Even better, plug it up from the bottom like you did with the lye, fill it all up with alcohol, and start dropping in chunks of dry ice. In addition to being easier to procure, liquid nitrogen has a problem of sitting on top of its own vapor, preventing real contact between the parts and the liquid before everything gets really cold. With this the liquid is already there, you're just making it much colder.
01-07-09, 05:23 PM
#43
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Oh, and don't do this and try to heat it up at the same time, unless you have a ludicrous amount of fire insurance. Or you do it at your friend's house.
01-07-09, 08:12 PM
#45
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I think the idea of mixing a blowtorch and WD40, along with a bucket of acetone sounds like a great idea. At least you have plenty of liquid nitrogen on hand for when things get really ugly.
