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Build your own truing stand?

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Old 12-13-08 | 11:59 PM
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Old 12-14-08 | 10:50 AM
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I have built several wheels and trued them to within 0.5 mm just using the brake adjustment on my bike and a Popsicle stick clamped to the frame. You won't get rich doing it this way but if you are patient you can do a good job.
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Old 12-14-08 | 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by theopowers
How do you deal with roundness accurately with just an old fork?
First off, with a good rim and good spoke management(no mixups, being attentive of just when the threads disappear from view), many wheels end up passably round w/o any further attention.

If roundness should require doing something about I think on my first build that I used an old spoke, loosely strapped to both fork legs by rubber bands. Adjust position until spoke contacts the rim. Locate point of contact, adjust radial true, spin, move spoke upwards, repeat.

On one occasion I've used a whiteboard marker supported by a fork leg aimed at the inside face of the rim to mark out the low spots together with the spoke to identify the high spots. It worked, but really didn't feel like it was worth the effort.

One fork I've used had an L-shaped fender hanging bracket still attached to the crown, I tried using that as an anchor point for a piece of threaded rod that could be adjusted up/down for radial true, but once again the crosswise spoke turned out to be the best balance between result and user-friendliness.
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Old 12-15-08 | 09:39 AM
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I started with a fork and 2 dial indicators attached by steel straps to the brake hole. It takes a long time to set up, but for a beginner it's by far the easiest to use. I even recorded the rim position at each spoke, so I could go back and prove that my wheels were stable after I used them for a while. You can't do that without a dial. A fork is also rigid enough that you can push them rim sideways to relieve the tension a little when you tighten spokes. You can't do that with a cheap stand.
A dish stick is more accurate than flipping the wheel, even if you have a really nice pro stand. It's also the easiest way to check dish you have a stick that works with the wheel in the stand. I measure the dish on a table, but I'll make a dish stick before I build another wheel.
I made a tension gauge with another dial indicator. I haven't calibrated it yet, but it works well enough to match tension to a wheel that I know has been reliable. If I bought one thing it would probably be a Park tension gauge, but only because it's easier to use than mine homebrew gauge.
For about $35, I have all the tools I need do build wheels at least as accurately as anyone I know.

em

Last edited by eddy m; 12-15-08 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 12-15-08 | 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jtarver
Hate to be the devils advocate, but you can get a Park TS-2 that will last forever for $175. Building any homemade version is going to have a material cost of $30-$50 plus labor. I really think the frustration of making and using a homemade model is not worth it in the long run. Plus, no need for a dish stick, just flip the wheel around. None of the homemade ones are much different than just using your brake pads as a guide, nor do they work that well if you're doing different size wheels.
One of my woodworker friends made his own salad serving fork set. He said, why buy them from Wal Mart for $2.50 when you can build them yourself from $10 in lumber in less than 15 hours?

Sometimes, it's about the journey, not the destination

Note that I'm building my own kitchen cabinets now... but this is going to save me about $15,000...
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Old 12-15-08 | 12:44 PM
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never used a stand but never really thought of the idea building your own. i used to just tighten up the brakes and use the brake pads as my guide. worked out great for my old mtn bike.
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Old 12-15-08 | 05:29 PM
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Inspired by the photos in the link given earlier in this thread, here's what I have so far. The fork was free at a cycling coop where I made a donation of some old wheels, the vice cost me $12 and the fastening hardware came to about $2:



The guys at Crappy Tire suggested I try soldering a nut to one of the bolts that I've inserted into the brake bosses, into which I could screw a long bolt to act as a lateral truing guide. Great idea, but either my soldering skills are lacking (very possibly true) or the cheap solder I used was crap or the cheap soldering gun I used wouldn't get hot enough to liquify the solder long enough for the nut to be seated properly. So that didn't work.

But I like the idea of putting a nut on that bolt in the boss. I wonder if there's another way to secure the nut to the bolt? Or is there a better way to make a guide (I don't want to use ties because they aren't so easily adjusted)?

Last edited by rousseau; 12-15-08 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 12-15-08 | 08:00 PM
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My diy stand cost almost nothing... the fork was free, I had the dial indicator, zip ties cost pennies, and I made the base from some scrap steel.
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Old 12-16-08 | 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rousseau

But I like the idea of putting a nut on that bolt in the boss. I wonder if there's another way to secure the nut to the bolt? Or is there a better way to make a guide (I don't want to use ties because they aren't so easily adjusted)?
Epoxy glue. Clean the area properly and use Epoxy. I am sure also superglue could work. If it breaks just glue it again. No problem.

Last edited by badmother; 12-16-08 at 04:04 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 12-16-08 | 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rousseau
The guys at Crappy Tire suggested I try soldering a nut to one of the bolts that I've inserted into the brake bosses, into which I could screw a long bolt to act as a lateral truing guide. Great idea, but either my soldering skills are lacking (very possibly true) or the cheap solder I used was crap or the cheap soldering gun I used wouldn't get hot enough to liquify the solder long enough for the nut to be seated properly. So that didn't work.
Not anywhere nearly enough heat to get the bolt & nut hot enough for the solder to wick. Don't make it so complicated, just drill a hole laterally through the fork-legs at the correct height to line up with the rim and stick a nail through. Or you can also tap the hole for a screw; the metal's thick enough to make threads.
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Old 12-16-08 | 06:07 AM
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Check out eBay item number 180313845798. You could build something like this at your local hardware store.
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Old 12-16-08 | 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by percywheeler
Check out eBay item number 180313845798. You could build something like this at your local hardware store.
I don't like that one at all. It looks like the arms are connected only by one L-shaped bracket on each side, and each side of the indicator has to be set up separately. It doesn't look very rigid (based on the attachment of the arms) or very easy to use.

em
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Old 12-16-08 | 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
My diy stand cost almost nothing... the fork was free, I had the dial indicator, zip ties cost pennies, and I made the base from some scrap steel.
+1

I used handlebars for my base, and I bought 2 used dials ($20). You can get new dials at Harbor Freight for $15. For a beginner, the dials are way easier to use because you can measure the position of the rim statically. With a caliper indicator, you can only compare one spot to another on a moving rim. It's easy to see how much the rim wobbles, but much harder to identify the exact spot where it's high or low, or by exactly how much. Most builders who do a lot of wheels find calipers easy and faster to use, but even some experienced builders add dials to their stands. https://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/mytruingstand.html

Unless I needed to do a lot of wheels in a hurry, it would be hard for me to justify more than the fork with dials and zip ties.

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Old 12-16-08 | 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by eddy m
+1

I used handlebars for my base, and I bought 2 used dials ($20). You can get new dials at Harbor Freight for $15. For a beginner, the dials are way easier to use because you can measure the position of the rim statically. With a caliper indicator, you can only compare one spot to another on a moving rim. It's easy to see how much the rim wobbles, but much harder to identify the exact spot where it's high or low, or by exactly how much. Most builders who do a lot of wheels find calipers easy and faster to use, but even some experienced builders add dials to their stands. https://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/mytruingstand.html

Unless I needed to do a lot of wheels in a hurry, it would be hard for me to justify more than the fork with dials and zip ties.

em
Being that my eyes are 43 years old and I am prone to using and losing my reading glasses I find the dial indicator to be helpful in that I can always read the dial and I also use my ears to listen for high / low spots.

That diy stand has been used to build and true countless wheels and it will get set up in my new shop as a PS2 simply cannot do a better job.
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Old 12-17-08 | 03:08 PM
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Well I'm 80% done, I would like to make some sort of caliper like a park stand but I'm not sure how to tackle that yet.
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Old 12-17-08 | 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dsellinger
Well I'm 80% done, I would like to make some sort of caliper like a park stand but I'm not sure how to tackle that yet.
Great job, I'm looking to build something along the same line as what you did. thanks for posting the photos.

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Old 12-17-08 | 10:01 PM
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To true wheels in the past I have propped up my wheels using the brakes as indicators, built a worthless home made stand and used zip ties as indicators. After that I simply coughed up $175 and bought a TS-2.

Professional results come from the correct equipment.

I don’t care what people here say they got .020 trueness from a zip tie, which is simply not probable. Besides if they don’t want to spend money on a descent truing stand, I doubt they will spend money on indicators that will give them accurate readings.
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Old 12-17-08 | 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jnvw
To true wheels in the past I have propped up my wheels using the brakes as indicators, built a worthless home made stand and used zip ties as indicators. After that I simply coughed up $175 and bought a TS-2.

Professional results come from the correct equipment.

I don’t care what people here say they got .020 trueness from a zip tie, which is simply not probable. Besides if they don’t want to spend money on a descent truing stand, I doubt they will spend money on indicators that will give them accurate readings.
And strangely enough... I consider myself to be a very skilled and professional wheel builder and the folks I have built wheels for would vouch for that fact.

It isn't just the tools that make you good.
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Old 12-17-08 | 10:06 PM
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PS - When I build wheels I like to work for a tolerance of 5/1000 or .005.
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Old 12-17-08 | 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
PS - When I build wheels I like to work for a tolerance of 5/1000 or .005.
That's about .12 mm, way smaller than any published tolerance I've ever seen. The spec for Racelite wheels is .4 mm, and even that is better than any current tire. At that point you get a better wheel if equalize tension more than work on trueness.

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Old 12-18-08 | 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by eddy m
That's about .12 mm, way smaller than any published tolerance I've ever seen. The spec for Racelite wheels is .4 mm, and even that is better than any current tire. At that point you get a better wheel if equalize tension more than work on trueness.

em
This tolerance is not always possible, but one must have a goal, and I do of course pay more attention to equalizing tension.

By far, the best set of wheels I ever built were initially built to an initial tolerance of 1/1000 and the guy who rides them hits the curb at 240 and rides the hell out of these mountain bike wheels.

The parts we used were nearly perfect.

After 1000's of km the wheels are still incredibly true and have needed no tuning.

In the case of ridden / used wheels you will rarely get things closer than 10-20 thou.
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Old 12-18-08 | 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jnvw
To true wheels in the past I have propped up my wheels using the brakes as indicators, built a worthless home made stand and used zip ties as indicators. After that I simply coughed up $175 and bought a TS-2.

Professional results come from the correct equipment.

I don’t care what people here say they got .020 trueness from a zip tie, which is simply not probable. Besides if they don’t want to spend money on a descent truing stand, I doubt they will spend money on indicators that will give them accurate readings.
Brake pads are almost useless as indicators, but I can do as well with a zip tie as with the caliper on a TS2 (although it takes a little longer). With a zip tie, I get to about 1 mm, which is fine for most wheels. With a dial indicator, I can get to .5 mm or less, which seems to be the standard for the best wheels. it's probably not necessary to true a wheel better than 1 mm, but it pleases me to know that my wheels are as true as the best wheels.
So far I've spent about $35, and I've got a stand that does everything the best stands can do, a tension gauge that is better than a Park gauge, and I'm confident that I can build a wheel as well as anyone. I make my own tools for the same reason I make my one wheels. I can get a better result and I can learn something along the way if I do it myself.

em
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Old 12-18-08 | 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by eddy m
So far I've spent about $35, and I've got a stand that does everything the best stands can do, a tension gauge that is better than a Park gauge, and I'm confident that I can build a wheel as well as anyone. I make my own tools for the same reason I make my one wheels. I can get a better result and I can learn something along the way if I do it myself.
em
Details please, I would love to see a diy tension gauge!
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Old 12-18-08 | 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by dsellinger
Details please, I would love to see a diy tension gauge!
I don't have any pictures, but it's pretty simple. The gauge is a small piece of Plaskolite, with 2 posts mounted 100 mm apart, and a dial indicator placed halfway between. To use it you hold the wheel horizontally, hang a 2 kgf weight on the spoke, place the gauge on top of the spoke and zero the dial, remove the weight and read the gauge.
It's better than a Park because it doesn't include the width of the spoke in the deflection measurement, and I think it uses a smaller load, so there is less increase in tension when you use it. There's also much less friction because only the weight of the instrument is on the posts, not the full test load of the weight, so it binds less. Because it doesn't include the width of the spoke in the measurement, you can accurately measure any width spoke, or even a spoke with a kink in it. Once you set it all up, it's easy enough to use, although not as easy as a Park or FSA, but you can make one for $20 even with all new parts.

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Old 12-18-08 | 08:49 AM
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What is the thickness of your "Plaskolite"? And that's just acrylic sheet right?

And in zeroing the dial are you are pushing the Plaskolite out the fit the curve of the spoke?
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