mikerhymeswith

sorry tale begins with a giant fcr1 flat bar hybrid undergoing conversion to cyclocross; got in a hurry and cut off steer tube too short; first mistake;

decide to replace fork and headset

i call can creek support and ask about replacements for aheadset; they say "can't help you. we license technology to taiwan and they make the part"

go to LBS where i originally bought bike; ordered ritchey carbon comp fork; i complained that original headset looked weak; they said can creek zero stack h/s would be good replacement, so i buy it; i install crown race on new fork; then go to install bearing cups; cups are bigger than originals; second mistake

now what?

should the frame be abandoned because it has an odd sized zs headset that is not supported well?

i cannot find any cyclocross frames using zs headset; i can find plenty of cx frames with is headset; zs technology appears to be little used and shows up on mtb and possibly some Leader brand frames

should i ask the LBS for a refund on headset since they said it would fit; i should have tested the parts before installing the crown race but i was going on their advice that is would work

any help appreciated; i'm getting tired of, and going broke, learning by experience

i will never ever buy another complete bike; i will only buy components that are standard and well-known

maddmaxx 

ZS headsets work fine. Get the right size and complete the job. I suspect from your description that you need a ZS-3 (its different from most other ZS headsets). If so you will have to change over to the new crown race as it sized and grooved to be part of the lower seal system.

Perhaps you LBS will refund part of the purchase price for a return.

There are a lot of variations in components and it unlikely that we will see "standard" components on everything in the near future. Every mechanic I know has stories like this to tell and sometimes we just chalk that up to "experience".

mikerhymeswith

thanks for the clues; i checked out the zs-3 and found it is spec'd for 50mm OD headtube, the giant fcr1 i have has a headtube with 47mm OD and 42-43mm ID;

this link show pics of a giant headtube and el-cheapo stock bearing; this is exactly what i am dealing with; page down a few times to find the pics:

https://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=68#zero

eureka! i found that the Campagnolo Record HIDDENSET dimensions match the FCR1 headtube and stock headset bearings; no way i'm putting an expensive headset on this frame; especially one that Campagnolo expressly forbids off-road use with; this is supposed to be a cx bike

this is shaping up to be a learning experience; one possible outcome is that i'll have cane creek zs headset that i can't use, and a giant fcr1 frame whose headset options are limited; regardless, i know a lot about integrated (not internal) headsets now;

maybe i'll put the original h/s back in fcr1 frame and donate it to the local bike co-op; this bike is not meant for cx: weak headset with limited upgrade potential, and chainstays that are really too close for a 700x32+ tire

maddmaxx 

The FSA ZS3 headset is spec'd for 50mm tubes. Try the leader bike store @ about $40 and follow up with some research at fullspeedahead.com. I believe I ran into this same problem a while back on a Leader 510MTB frame. Not all ZS headsets have the same standard...

Be careful with CS (Campy)headsets as they take a different angle cartridge bearing.

Now that I have reread your measurements I see that 50mm is the one you don't want. Consider the recomendation for the ZS3 to be wrong.

mikerhymeswith

things are looking better now; at jensonusa i found this for usd40:

The Sinz 1-1/8" Integrated Headset is a smooth and stable headset the uses Ceramic Bearings, and a stainless steele fork race.

* Campagnolo Hiddenset Compatible
* Stainless Steel Fork Race
* ACB Ceramic Bearing
* Alloy Top Cap
* Crown Race: 30.0
* Bearing Type: Angular Contact ceramic
* Headset Type: Integrated, 42.0mm OD bearing (Hiddenset)
* Material: Aluminum
* Steerer Tube: 1-1/8" Threadless

i'm gonna roll the dice on this headset; maybe my LBS will make a deal on swapping out the cane creek zs for the sinz hiddenset; if not, then i'm paying usd50 for my education; trying to share that education here so i can pay back a bit what i taken from bf;

another thing stands out from this experience: mindless googling failed; i had to read park tool, chris king, campagnolo, and wikipedia pages to learn alternate names and specs for this style of headset technology; then i had to manually search online bike stores for parts using all the different marketing names

bidaci

It sounds like you have an integrated headset like this one https://www.blueskycycling.com/produc...ed-Headset.htm and not the zero stack. Figuring out what you have with Giants bikes can be confusing at first but when you find the right part the rest is easy...

mikerhymeswith

thanks, maddmaxx, for the advice to be careful with choosing campagnolo hiddenset; repeated reading and inspecting helped me conclude hiddenset is not the correct choice; hiddenset is an integrated headset and not an internal, or semi-integrated headset

my fcr1 headtube has an ID of 42mm but it does not have the 45 deg bevel against which the angular contact bearing rests; instead, my headtube has a 90 deg. step that holds the original equipment cup

stepstack headset technology is very close description of what i have, but they don't have a model for the 42mm cup, only 44mm; and they don't appear to be a retail outlet:
https://www.vpcomponents.com/FAQ.asp?pid=3#3

then i find the closest matching part yet on the bottom of page 44 of this 2007 pdf catalog at:
https://www.prosupergo.com.tw/profile2007.pdf

604H396
Semi-integrated,threadless
road.Semi-cartridge bearings
1-1/8".Alum,anodized sil or bk
Dia:28.6/41.4/30.Stack height:
7+2.5=9.5 Bearings:semi
cartridge.Set:5pcs

the part has a clear cane creek label on it; the 41.4 is reasonable for the 42mm headtube ID

unfortunately prosupergo doesn't appear to be a retail outlet either

i am close to concluding that there is a single headset made for the 2007 Giant FCR1; it's a weak headset and it's difficult to get a replacement; this frame will not be used for my CX adventures

here are my main reference sources:
https://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=68#zero
https://chrisking.com/tech/int_headse..._hds_explain_1

note: LBS very kindly removed the crown race and refunded my purchase of the cane creek zs-2; then they pulled out a Giant headset and we were all surprised when the Giant part was the same dimension as the zs-2; now the dealer is stumped; they asked me to provide the serial number of the frame and they would contact giant about a replacement

CO_Steve

Mike,
I have an FCR as well. In reading your adventure did you actually have problems with the oem headset? I will admit to pushing mine into rougher terrain than it was probably designed for but haven't had any issues yet.

mikerhymeswith

i was building this FCR into a cyclocross bike to see if i liked the sport; the oem headset is a caged bearing that sits in a cup and has a top race that is held in place with a plastic retainer ring; the assembly performs similar to an angular contact bearing

my problems began with my cutting off my steerer tube too short, replacing the fork with a Ritchey Carbon Comp and then wanting to upgrade the headset; removing the headset caps was easy enough but I found the top cup had a hole chipped out of it; it don't know if the damage occurred during removal or during some rough rides it had earlier; either way, i knew this headset was not going to survive any amount of cyclocross racing; honestly, the headsets in cheap kids bikes are better quality than the oem headset

given how hard this part is to replace, i would not use it in an off-road application

my LBS that sold the bike to me is checking with Giant about a replacement headset; i'll report the price and lead time here when i get that information

i am still thinking about getting a cheap Hiddenset knock-off to try since it has the same dimension of diameter and depth; the difference is that the headtube bearing bore terminates with a 90 deg step instead of a 45 deg chamfer; perhaps some J B Weld expoxy might help in remolding; if this solution works the advantage will be that the bike has a cartridge bearing instead of a the wimpy single source oem unit;

regardless of how the headset problem is solved, the bike will be only used for commuting or touring

as side-note, i've since picked up a cheap Aluminum cyclocross frame, and amazingly I picked up a Chris King NoThreadSet at LBS going-out-of-business sale; i don't expect to have any problems with cyclocross headsets now; the CK is a thing of beauty

mikerhymeswith

LBS ordered a replacement headset from Giant based on the frame serial number. The new headset is _much_ better than the original. The thickness of the cup and cap are 2x the original. The crown race more robust too. LBS could not take off the original crown race because it was so thin, the blades of the remover tool could not slide under to force the race upward. Both of the original bearing cups cracked on removal. These new bearing cups should not suffer the same failure. The new bearing is still a caged bearing inside a cup/cone arrangement. More than likely the caged bearing can be replaced if need be in the future, and the cup/cones are robust so they should last for many years and many distance units. The frame is useable now. It will be returned to its intended purpose: commuter/urban/touring. Only decision now is for the fork: CrMo or C. Thinking cheap Tange CrMo fits the purpose of the bike.

And it lived happily ever after.

The End.