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-   -   Proprietary woes (https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/502654-proprietary-woes.html)

johnbaldwin207 01-15-09 11:52 PM

Proprietary woes
 
Recently I cracked the freehub body on my 1996 Shimano Dura Ace model 7402(?) 8 speed rear hub. I was deftly and, admittedly, without much concentration, switching out a cassette. The lockring skipped a thread and took a thin, 1/8th inch rectangular chip out of the end of the freehub body. This rendered the inner lockring threads, to my knowledge, useless (unless, as one LBS mechanic suggested, I "carefully" hacksaw it and turn the hub into a 7 speed [...hmm])
Anyway, when I set out to replace the body myself I found upon removing the removing the axle that this particular hub wouldn't take a normal 10mm allen wrench. Or any allen wrench for that matter. The same LBS was stumped (...hmm). I did my own research and found the parts I needed. This was to be one of my most memorable voyages into the infinite foresight of Shimano and their ridiculously exorbatant Dura-Ace line.
I need a $20 splined tool to remove the freehub body. They only required these for a few years. From 1997 they require a normal 10mm allen wrench. Pretty hefty jump in specialization between '96 and '97 wouldn't you say?
After I employ this highly specialized tool I need a highly specialized, proprietary Dura-Ace freehub body. Please note that the freehub body for this particular model year for Dura-Ace CANNOT BE INTERCHANGED WITH ANYTHING but what it was first intended to run. This part costs no less than $70 (I've seen it as high as 120 on some sites).
Wow. $70 for a lousy freehub body?! This wheel is going to hang inert for a while until an eBay miracle happens. Two eBay miracles, I should say. A new reason for me to SLOW DOWN when working on bikes. Yet another reason Dura-Ace is a rich man's game.

Steev 01-16-09 06:21 AM

Don't be too harsh on it. All those spendy folk that bought early Dura-Ace made the freehub concept sucessful enough for Shimano to go on and design the standardized parts we use now.

LarDasse74 01-16-09 07:47 AM


Originally Posted by Steev (Post 8191653)
Don't be too harsh on it. All those spendy folk that bought early Dura-Ace made the freehub concept sucessful enough for Shimano to go on and design the standardized parts we use now.

While Dura Ace was the proving ground for some of the most revolutionary changes in bicycle component design, 1996 was well after the introduction of the freehub... 1996 or 1997 must have been the last year 8 speed was offered (although 8 and 9 sp cassettes have the same spacing and so there should be no need for a redesign)

Anyhoo, to the OP, good luck on getting your top-of-the-range parts, and vive la planned obsolescence!

HillRider 01-16-09 08:50 AM

The hub is 13 years old, give Shimano a break! If you think they are unique in planned obsolence, look at Campy's history.

Unless you insist on Dura Ace, new Ultegra or even 105 8/9/10-speed hubs are available very reasonably priced and Colorado Cyclist offers a complete rear wheel with an Ultegra hub and Mavic CXP-33 or Open Pro rims for ~$175.

johnbaldwin207 01-16-09 09:26 AM

I think rebuilding the wheel around a new, consumer related, entirely servicable hub might be in order. "Carefully" hacksawing off the damaged area is tempting, though...

well biked 01-16-09 09:38 AM

It's not just Dura Ace. I had to replace an XT 8/9/10 speed freehub body once, and found that not just any XT 8/9/10 speed freehub body would work. It's been awhile and I don't remember the details, but I do remember cursing Shimano. Of course, I do really like Shimano. Sort of.

LarDasse74 01-16-09 10:06 AM


Originally Posted by well biked (Post 8192449)
Of course, I do really like Shimano. Sort of.

When their stuff works it works well. If it didn't nobody anywhere would put up with all the trouble of incompatible parts and non-serviceable $400 shift levers and $200 derailleurs.

JohnDThompson 01-16-09 12:41 PM


Originally Posted by johnbaldwin207 (Post 8191171)
Recently I cracked the freehub body on my 1996 Shimano Dura Ace model 7402(?) 8 speed rear hub. I was deftly and, admittedly, without much concentration, switching out a cassette. The lockring skipped a thread and took a thin, 1/8th inch rectangular chip out of the end of the freehub body. This rendered the inner lockring threads, to my knowledge, useless (unless, as one LBS mechanic suggested, I "carefully" hacksaw it and turn the hub into a 7 speed [...hmm])
Anyway, when I set out to replace the body myself I found upon removing the removing the axle that this particular hub wouldn't take a normal 10mm allen wrench. Or any allen wrench for that matter. The same LBS was stumped (...hmm). I did my own research and found the parts I needed. This was to be one of my most memorable voyages into the infinite foresight of Shimano and their ridiculously exorbatant Dura-Ace line.
I need a $20 splined tool to remove the freehub body. They only required these for a few years. From 1997 they require a normal 10mm allen wrench. Pretty hefty jump in specialization between '96 and '97 wouldn't you say?
After I employ this highly specialized tool I need a highly specialized, proprietary Dura-Ace freehub body. Please note that the freehub body for this particular model year for Dura-Ace CANNOT BE INTERCHANGED WITH ANYTHING but what it was first intended to run. This part costs no less than $70 (I've seen it as high as 120 on some sites).
Wow. $70 for a lousy freehub body?! This wheel is going to hang inert for a while until an eBay miracle happens. Two eBay miracles, I should say. A new reason for me to SLOW DOWN when working on bikes. Yet another reason Dura-Ace is a rich man's game.

Shimano: the Microsoft of the bicycle world.

fuzz2050 01-16-09 01:29 PM

The top of the line is almost never worth it, Don't play around with Dura-Ace, Ultegra is just as good, and you don't have to pay the early adopter tax.

HillRider 01-16-09 03:05 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 8193750)
Shimano: the Microsoft of the bicycle world.

As I said above, don't beat on Shimano before you know about Campy's history too. Ever hear of Synchro I and II, Delta brakes, PermaLink chains, and a few other choice items?

If it weren't for innovation we'd still be riding 4-speed freewheels, rod operated derailleurs and using C/PM. :D

JohnDThompson 01-16-09 08:04 PM


Originally Posted by HillRider (Post 8194745)
As I said above, don't beat on Shimano before you know about Campy's history too. Ever hear of Synchro I and II, Delta brakes, PermaLink chains, and a few other choice items?

If it weren't for innovation we'd still be riding 4-speed freewheels, rod operated derailleurs and using C/PM. :D

Oh, I know plenty of Campy's history. I met Valentino Campagnolo briefly once (and Yoshi Shimano at a different time). Shimano is innovative, but they have long frustrated more than a few people by introducing products with great fanfare and then quietly dropping them after only a couple years. And providing small parts for end users has never been a strong point for Shimano -- if it breaks, replace the whole thing rather than the piece that failed.

As you point out, Campagnolo has done this as well, but do note that the examples you give all come from the period after Tullio's death.

Re: 4-speed freewheels, rod operated derailleurs, and CP/M -- something wrong with those? (I still have 3 or 4 CP/M computers here...) :-P

fuzz2050 01-16-09 08:17 PM

and those paris-roubaix shifting mechanisms are just badass. I'm sorry, but there is just no way around how cool those things are. I'd rock one.
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...risRoubaix.jpg

nahh 01-16-09 09:07 PM

^^^That photo. Just...wow.


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