+100

This has been my experience as well. I like that it does a great job and yet is harmless to the environment and thus easily disposed of. I was just introduced to another product last week that is supposed to work as well or better and be even friendlier as far as disposal and yet a little cheaper. I've just ordered a small bottle to sample it.

https://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...r=2928%50mode=

https://www.velonews.com/article/9216

clearly, chain maintenance is like P&R

I bought the larger model that frequently shows up on ebay for $60 about two or three years ago. I find it is very effective. However, you can not fit a chain ring in it in one shot, it will take two or three rotations. I can clean a chain in as little as 2 or 3 minutes if it's one I've maintained. I occaisionally flip a bike or two. They frequently have old, caked on grease and dried out lubrication. Sometimes I can clean a chain from those bikes in 6 minutes, sometimes I let the chain soak overnight in the bath. The unit I have can be set to operate for 6 minutes, then you have to re-set it. I like the unit because while it's doing much of the dirty work, I'm taking care of the next task while the bike is on the stand.

blamp28, please keep us informed of the results.

Ok, so Simple Green with petroleum distillates (oil, grease, and other stuff) in it is still biodegradable? Not arguing. Just asking because I really don't know.

That is a decent question and is why I'm trying Natures Solution. My understanding from the rep I spoke with is that he would expect it to work as well or nearly as well as SG. The difference is that even after use, it can be dumped down the drain and it continues to clean and dissolve the materiel as well as the plumbing. If that is true, It would be "greener" than SG. The US Postal Service is beginning to use it in thier vehicle maintenance facilities and lets it just wash down the drain. I'm a strong advocate of Simple Green but this may get me to switch. I will post up since I do have some chains to clean as I prepare some Mountain Bikes for the race season.

That is usually posted when this discussion comes up and the loudest complaints come from a couple of users who stored thier chains in containers of Simple Green for 6 months! Simple Green is not a storage media. It is a cleaner and a darn good one. It should not be rocket science that any cleaner strong enough to dissolve grease and do a great job of cleaning parts should be completely rinsed or otherwise removed after it does it's job. I wouldn't soak my chain in anything for six months. I simply clean, rinse thoroughly, dry, then re-lube with my lube of choice. I will usually leave one spare chain for the mountain bike cleaned and a little over lubed in an original package from SRAM. That way, when I need to clean my chain, I just swap chains and ride.

Chain rings are large enough where you can clean them by hand. I would get an ultrasonic big enough to fit a cassette (probably a 34t)

Tried what? The solvent wetted rag? No, but I've brushed on mineral spirits and used aerosal WD-40 to do a minimal on the bike cleaning. Neither does a very good job compared to a good off the bike cleaning.

I also use a homebrew lube that is at least 4 parts mineral spirits and I apply it heavily, every other ride (about 100 mile intervals). I apply enough lube so the runoff nearly saturates a blue paper shop towel, so I get a fair amount of cleaning with every lubrication. I don't clean my chains real often, maybe once every 600 miles, but only if the chain has a master link so it can be removed. With the new 11 speed chain, there is no way to remove, so it will not get a real cleaning until I take it off at it's first cycle in a 3-chain rotation (probably at 2,000 miles).

I'll probably give the 11 speed chain a good WD-40 blast once a month, in addition to normal lubing. I even have one 11 speed chain that will get lubed with nothing but WD-40, just as an experiment. I've already logged about 200 miles on that chain and find that WD-40 works about the same as a typical homebrew lube. I'll be comparing the chain wear to my other 11 speed chain that gets lubed with 80/90W synthetic gear lube (thinned with naptha).

Who said anything about a rag? bk

Maybe I'm confused. I thought you were still referring to the above post, that mentions brake klean on a towel. Brake Klean is a solvent and to me a towel is the same as a rag.

I have been thinking of using the wifes foot spa (witha liner of course) - how would this compare to an ultrasonic cleaner?

"Biodegradable" is quite a loaded term...there really is a spectrum of biodegradability. An apple is more biodegradable than a T-shirt because both you and a goat can eat the apple but only the goat can eat the T-shirt. Well, that's an oversimplification, but for a given organic material there are typically at least a few organisms that can metabolize it. Even benzene rings - which are chemically very hard to work with - can be metabolized by enzymes in white rot fungus, for example, but we wouldn't usually call benzene "biodegradable." We call a substance "biodegradable" if a lot of microorganisms, or some really ubiquitous ones, can break it down. Aliphatic hydrocarbons in lubricants and organic solvents are fairly uncommonly broken down, and the polyoxyethylene surfactants in Simple Green are more commonly metabolized.

A little bit of oil/grease in Simple Green on your lawn or garden is OK because the soil probably has enough of the right type of microorganisms to break the oil/grease down gradually. If you threw a can full of mineral spirits full of chain gunk on your garden, the waste would probably kill the plants, overwhelm the microorganisms, and make it into the groundwater. That's the kind of thing we'd like to avoid.

As a carless apartment-dweller in a big city, I struggle with this. My Simple Green goes down the drain with the greasy stuff, and I feel guilty. I'd feel much guiltier doing the same with organic solvents...so I collect them in the original containers and look for a proper disposal facility. I'm sad to say that after a solid year and a half of working on bikes recreationally, I'm still looking.

I hope this is a joke... Exactly how does an organically based degreaser cause tempered steel to change it's molecular structure and become brittle? Simple Green would more likely cause the sun to darken, or pigs to fly.

I've used Simple Green for more than 20 years with no complaints or problems. Unlike 409 or other stronger degreasers, Simple Green will not etch aluminum or bleach out paint. It is safe on pretty much all surfaces you'll find on your bicycle, including the bar tape.

For cleaning chains, I use Automotive Simple Green, which is a bit stronger than the normal formula. It's available at most auto parts stores. I just add it to my Park Chain Gang cleaner, and it gets chains clean. I've never had a chain fail, and, with weekly or bi-weekly cleaning, I get 5000 or more miles out of a good chain.

And yes, you can use a water-based cleaners on a chain. Once the chain is clean, run it through an old towel to remove the excess water. Let it dry overnight, and then lubricate it. I use Kleenbore gun protector. It lubricates very well, and cleans up more easily than most other types of oils.

I used to work in the US Navy Materials Science program, specifically aircraft corrosion.

We forbid the use of Simple Green on Navy aircraft because of the pH. Naval aircraft cap their cleaning solutions at pH 10.

I did some lab work with it some time ago. I've heard a couple people here say that it would embrittle metals. In my experience any steel embrittlement is caused from an acid on higher strength steels. It's certainly possible to embrittle aluminum although chains aren't aluminum.

Take my words as gospel or BS. I used to get paid to tell people not to use Simple Green anywhere near aircraft and that being said I clean all my chains in a park tool cleaner with Simple Green.

If I had any recommendation at all I'd say that Simple green contains water and you should displace the moisture in your chain links. I use BreakFree, which essentially is an oil with PTFE (teflon) in it.

I personally think any chain that's clean and dry with some lubricative compound on it is going to, well, do what a chain is supposed to do.

John

...or, displace the water with WD-40, then let that dry before lubing.

With respect to the chain or your marriage?

My goodness! A chain cleaning thread with some actual new info!


Fwiw (not that anyone will heed them) I agree with Shimano. Don't solvent-clean your chains. I use a wax-type lube and (almost) never apply solvent until the chain comes off headed for the spares bin. Then it's gasoline in the equivalent of an ultrasound, at least two baths.

Don't be fooled by how "clean" a solvent makes the outside of your chain. The outside is irrelevant. The *inside* is what's important and solvent essentially flushes that dirt on the outside into the inside.

It may make your Mom think you're not a slob, but it's not good for the chain.

Regardless of what's happening on the inside, my solvent cleaned chains shift smoother/quicker and run quieter than the pre-solvent cleaned chain did. That's good enough for me.

A proper solvent cleaning will NOT flush dirt from the outside of a chain to the inside. The clearances between the chain's parts are not close and dirt easily migrates into the chain without the help of solvent.

To properly solvent clean a chain, at least two washings in fresh solvent are required, perhaps even three. That's why I use mineral spirits for the first washing, then a hot soapy-water wash and finish with a hot water rinse. WD-40 or homebrew can be used to displace water and lube the chain. Either one will also provide enough lubrication for a least a couple of rides before more lube is needed.

Never use gasoline as a cleaning solvent. It's far more dangerous than mineral spirits, kerosene or diesel fuel. Once mineral spirits gets some oil in it, you can toss a match in an open container of it and all it will do is extinguish the match.

What chemical in Simple Green could be making steel brittle, unless the issue is just plain rust?

Strange, IMO.

Road Fan

With naval aircraft there are special issues, mainly salt air. I'm not such a good chemist any more, but if it affects the corrosivity of strucure in salt air, I'd be cautious as well, with a $10B clump of aircraft. But I find it hard to see how it affects a hardened bike chain.

Thanks!

Chains are disposable anyway... even if you clean them regularly using the most best-est safe cleaner in the universe, how long is the chain going to last anyways?

I use a Park chain cleaner thingey filled with whatever the wife has stashed under the kitchen sink that looks like it will cut grease.

BTW... I find it really hard to believe that Simple Green will damage a hardened steel chain in the few minutes that it takes to clean the gunk off.

If simple green really has a PH greater than 10, it's a strong caustic. I believe that the hypothesis is that lengthy (days, weeks, months?) soaking in the strong caustic caused hydrogen embrittlement.

Soaking steel in a strong caustic solution (heated) is a common cleaning method in the electroplating industry, but the exposure time rarely exceeds 24 hours (perhaps to remove old paint). More commonly, parts are only cleaned for a few minutes with reverse current applied to remove contaminants.

I just did my recumbent chain (2 full chains) with the solvent/towel method. Took my time and did a nice job of it. Nothing but smooth turning rollers and no grittiness. I do it once a week so there is little chance of grimy, gritty buildup. Can't sell me on any need to remove the chain from the bike. bk