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Old 08-29-09 | 10:55 AM
  #26  
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From: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Originally Posted by nitropowered
Nitrogen in car tires is a big scam.
It is a complete scam for passenger cars.

Originally Posted by nitropowered
The only reason why race cars use 100% nitrogen in their tires is so there is no water vapor in the tire. The tires get so hot that the water vapor will alter the air pressure thus throwing off handling. Normal car tires or bicycle tires will never get that hot.
This isn't quite right either. Water vapor is a gas, which means that temperature will effect it just like other gasses (like N2). If water were to be a problem (and it probably isn't, in practice), it would be the result of a phase change between liquid/solid and gas.

I suspect that N2 is used in race cars because using tanks of compressed gas is more convenient/faster than using a pump. Compressed N2 isn't that much more expensive than compressed air and, the extra cost is negligiable consindering the overall cost of fielding a race car. It would seem that compressed N2 is safer, with respect to risks of fire, too.

Originally Posted by Crank57
Folks, I think before you start trashing an idea, maybe you should do a little research.
The bearest minimum of research establishes that it iis bogus for passenger vehicles.

Originally Posted by Tracon
While there are no "scientific double blind studies" the article is interesting.
https://www.bicycling.com/article/1,6...ve+You+An+Edge
It's a crap article. It's mostly a lazy regurgitation of a press release.

Originally Posted by CloudyBright
Worth doing if it's cheap & easy, but for tire dealers it's a profit tool, hence their high prices for it.
There are no studies that establish that it is worth anything in practical use. There are theoretical advantages but there's nothing that indicates that these work out to any real-world advantage.

Originally Posted by HillRider
Argon is used for it's inertness to protect valuable artifacts from oxidation. BTW, The Nitrogen molecule isn't larger than "air" since it 78% of air already.
N2 is pretty inert. Argon might also be preferred because it's heavier.

Last edited by njkayaker; 08-29-09 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 08-29-09 | 11:03 AM
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Isn't air composed of ~70% Nitrogen anyways?
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Old 08-29-09 | 11:13 AM
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From: Dante's Third Ring
More like 79% N2.
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Old 08-30-09 | 02:09 PM
  #29  
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Where to get those NO2 catridges...

No one seems to be able to answer the OP's original Question! I say let the OP try out NO2 in tires and report on his/her findings. Little NO2 cyclinders were available in gourmet kitchen accessories shops like Williams-Sonoma and (at one time) Brookstone's. They were used for making Whipped cream in soda syphon-like container(think of the Three Stooges spraying seltzer at each other....). One added Cream to the syphon; infused the NO2 into the cream and the syphon spat out perfect whipped cream. Unfortunately, these little cannisters were used as a semi-legal way of getting high, back in the seventies and early eighties- they were known as "Whippits". The NO2 was inhaled as "laughing gas" and a little stupidity ensued. Because these were being bought in ridiculous quantities by high schoolers, various retailers began to limit the amount that could be bought by an individual or at what age a buyer would be permitted to get them. That being said, one can find them via an internet search as "whipped cream chargers". This is what came up on the first try on Google: https://www.easywhip.com/whipped-cream-chargers.html. If you have a Gourmet supply store in your area, I wouldn't be surprised if they had a few boxes in stock. Happy Hunting!
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Old 08-30-09 | 02:12 PM
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el - NO2 is nitrogen dioxide, and is poisonous. "Laughing gas" is N2O (nitrous oxide). The OP was asking about yet a third gas, N2 (plain nitrogen).
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Old 08-30-09 | 06:35 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Mondoman
el - NO2 is nitrogen dioxide, and is poisonous. "Laughing gas" is N2O (nitrous oxide). The OP was asking about yet a third gas, N2 (plain nitrogen).
What would happen if you were to inflate your bike tires with N2O. Flat tires would become a lot more entertaining, and a lot harder to fix...
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Old 08-31-09 | 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by markjenn
So each of us is supposed to spend money and time conducting 50K mile research tests on nitrogen, fuel magnets, duralube, etc. before we can conclude that these things are worthless scams based on solid scientific evidence of other people who have already done good research?
No...he is posting the research for you. You have the liberty to take it for what it is worth.
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Old 08-31-09 | 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
This isn't quite right either. Water vapor is a gas, which means that temperature will effect it just like other gasses (like N2). If water were to be a problem (and it probably isn't, in practice), it would be the result of a phase change between liquid/solid and gas.
Yes, it's that phase change from liquid to gas that's the problem with using air containing a significant amount of water. Say you fill your race car tires on a hot humid day. The next morning the tires will be much cooler and some of the water vapor in the humid air has now condensed inside the tire therefore dropping the pressure more than would be expected by the ideal gas law. Then you top off the tire to get it up to just the right pressure, but it still has some of the condensed liquid water inside. So when the tire heats up during the race that water turns into gaseous water vapor and the pressure of the tire becomes greater than intended for optimum traction and handling.
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Old 09-06-09 | 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mondoman
el - NO2 is nitrogen dioxide, and is poisonous. "Laughing gas" is N2O (nitrous oxide). The OP was asking about yet a third gas, N2 (plain nitrogen).
Apparently, you can buy them in OZ:

https://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/s...006301,00.html
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Old 09-06-09 | 10:49 PM
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NO2 is found in it's diatomic state of N2O4. It is a reddish-brown gas at room temperature. And it killed 3 Soviet Cosmonauts when it was accidentally released into their capsule during a landing from a mission to their MIR space-station.

Always be VERY certain what gas is specified on a cylinder or other containment device. One breath will fill your lungs up with Nitric Acid and water. And your blood as the lung-tissue is destroyed. That's no 'Laughing-Gas' - N2O.
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Old 09-07-09 | 02:22 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Panthers007
I wonder what chlorine would do.....
Or this mixture ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatule...f_flatus_gases

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Old 09-07-09 | 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
N2 is pretty inert. Argon might also be preferred because it's heavier.
Argon is pretty expensive. I use it as a welding gas
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Old 09-07-09 | 08:39 AM
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Around here, auto tire shops are offering nitrogen inflation for $40. Maybe there's some possibility of condensation in car tires because if their large volume.
OTOH masons have a saying "never strike a joint the client can't see," meaning it doesn't matter what you pay for, if you can't tell the difference in the product, they won't do it inless you watch them. I'll keep my $40.

em
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Old 09-07-09 | 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
I've also seen the party tricks of shattering bananas and rubber hoses after dipping them in the liquid. Be careful of storing these containers in a closed room. The evaporating gas could displace enough air to suffocate your guests. This is better done at outside parties.
It's not dangerous in any reasonable quantity that would be employed for personal use (ie, 10L Dewar or similar). It dissipates quickly, doesn't bind to hemoglobin, etc. So there's no real need to keep that sort of quantity ventilated. It won't suffocate anyone - we used it all the time in lab in small rooms.

However, anything at 77K ain't safe unless you know what the hell you're doing (that shattering banana trick can become a shattering hand trick), so it's not a real good idea for parties anyway.

That said, it's also not useful for quick-inflate cartridges as you've mentioned because they'd have to be very large, very cold, or extremely highly pressurized.
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Old 09-07-09 | 09:16 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by HillRider
...BTW what makes you think nitrogen escapes much slower than air? Who ever told you is spouting nonsense. Air is 78% nitrogen already. This entire nitrogen in tires business is a scam for almost everybody.
I asked this question of a scientific type arguing for nitrogen in tires: Given that air is mostly nitrogen, if you just keep putting air in the tires and oxygen diffuses through the tire faster than nitrogen, the oxygen will escape, eventually leaving you with essentially pure nitrogen.

He then admitted that while nitrogen diffuses faster than oxygen, the rate difference is similar to the composition of air so that the above never occurs. That means there is no real difference to using air or nitrogen. Besides, how often do you pump your car tires?
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