Hope you are doing safer stuff these days. I used carb cleaner in an unventilated space and got pretty nauseous. We can only hope that neither of us was permanently affected. A friend of mine was repairing vinyl car upholstery on a hot day. He went into convulsions and died.

That was 37 years ago and I am doing safer stuff now. I work in a hospital emergency department analyzing data. The most dangerous part of my job is bumping my head on the underside of my desk when I plug and unplug my equipment. Wow, dying while repairing vinyl care upholstery. Those hydrocarbon fumes are deadly. I part out any work that involves handling dangerous substances. I recently got my Falcon frame sand blasted and powder coated. I bought a can of "safe" paint stripper and after reading the instructions, I thought, "That is too much work and it will smell like solvents." I found a local powder coating shop. Nine day turnaround. I would still be dealing with paint stripper, toothbrushes and pointy things getting the paint off.

[MENTION=347939]Phloom[/MENTION], I was looking forward to seeing your car, but the link didn't work.

Ok thanks, so that's fine for new chains, taken on board. What do you do when resurrecting old chains rusted in place or left in the rain for 40 years etc? Don't you want to start with a clean slate there? I've had to do this several times and a soak in some kind of solvent has always been the starting point. Sheldon Browns tip of then soaking in hot chain saw oil or the like has yielded a working bicycle without having to replace the running gear. Whether or not I'm causing additional wear here or if there's a better way I'd like to know.

My rant was directed only at those who prematurely strip away the good stuff put into the chain at the factory, since nothing they can put on afterward will be as good.

An old chain is a different story. The warm oil will bring it back to life, but (I'm guessing) will wear out of the pins and rollers sooner than the factory grease. But you have no alternative except to cook up a vat of the heavy grease, which could make your house uninhabitable and drive your signifcant other away.

A rusted chain may not be reclaimable, since the rust represents lost metal. I recently tried to restore one, but the new oil turned to brown mud when it mixed with the rust. The chain turned out to "stretched" out of spec.

Thanks for the reply! So this is what you'd do with an old chain - use hot grease rather than oil? I'd do it outside with a double boiler and just drive the neighbours away. I have a NOS chain and freewheel too both have the grease set hard.
The freewheel will be dismantled and repacked but how would you approach the chain?

If the old lube on the chain is that hard, you have nothing to lose by using a solvent to clean it off. The solvent shouldn't be water-based, however, as that would introduce water deep into the links. In my opinion, water and machinery are always a bad combination.

In this case, a penetrating oil like WD-40 would be your best bet. It should dissolve the old dried lube, leaving the chain clean. Then you can use your heated oil.

You may also be able to free up the stuck FW by immersing it in WD-40, sold in gallon cans at Home Depot and elsewhere. Immerse the FW in a coffee can with enough WD-40 to cover it. Might as well let it sit overnight and then let the FW drain thoroughly. Keep the can covered because of fumes!

Finally, drip a 20 weight oil into the FW and spin it. If all this doesn't work, proceed with dismantling.

Cool that sounds easier than 2 chain whips and pin punches etc. Cheers! Matthew

In line with others' comments already, in my experience aluminum will get pitted by long exposure to methylene chloride and epoxy will be dissolved/softened by it.

The degreaser didn't eat the metal, it just stripped the oils off of it allowing it to corrode. So yeah, oil things immediately after cleaning. Which is why I use mineral spirits with a splash of oil in it for cleaning bike parts.

Odorless Mineral Spirits. Much better than detergent based for cleaning and doesn't leave residue.

Falcon bicycle designed by Ernie Clement.


It seems I can't upload anything from work.

Ok, this may be beating a dead horse, but what about 2 cycle gas/oil mix? I have some left over that I don't use in the winter. It's got oil and gas. Thoughts? Obviously this would not be the actual lube. Just thinking it would leave behind some oil in the rollers.

Methinks, in my much wiser old age, that cleaning anything in gasoline is a not particularly good idea.

I agree, but then again the late Richard Pryor once said that being on fire is inspirational, so there's that to consider.

Ah, yes. I understand and appreciate that. Tho I don't necessarily agree with Sir Richard. You will note I stated...in my much wiser old age. My eyebrows grew back and the residual burn scars are relativity minor and no longer really all that noticeable.

Lot of non truths here. Motor oil detergents are intended to keep carbon and other contaminates from coagulating and or bonding with surfaces in the motor. Detergents in no way cause dirt to cling to metal.

Citra-solv is a citrus oil based solvent. It is the oil from pressing citrus peels and will eat plastic and paint. It is not a detergent it is simply an an oil based solvent. Citrus peel is considered Haz waste unless it is de-oiled. This is why it is cheap, it is a waste from another process.

Detergents work in many ways. Some simply break the polymer bonds some convert oils to soaps.
I use a 5 gallon heated water ultrasonic cleaner for chains. This is 100% overkill for a bike chain but I already own the machine for other use. I use a solution of water and sodium metasilicate for steel. Sodium metasilicate converts oils to soaps via process called saponification. This is the Judo of solvents so to speak. A combination of heat, degreasing solvent and ultrasonic vibrations leaves the chain looking like the day it was made. The chains come from the tank piping hot (60C) and I blast it with an air gun to blow any water from between the pins, link plates and rollers. Once dry and while still hot it goes into a 1 gallon ziplock bag along with my chain lube of choice. I leave the chain soaking in a puddle of chosen lubricant as this lets the surface tension pull the lube into the joints. When the chain is pulled and used I can dump another chain into the bag.

The damage to a bike chain is when it is run dry of lube. Chain lube works by keeping the metal apart via a thin, hard to wipe away film. When you wash this film away or contaminate it to the point it degrades its ability to cling is when you get true molecular level metal to metal contact. Metal to metal contact at the mol level is what you work to avoid via proper lube and reapplication rates. It is better to add lube to a dirty chain than to overclean and under lube one.

Baring expensive unneeded equipment, Clean the chain using a 100% evaporating solvent and fully saturate the chain with new lube.

aluminum is not damaged by exposure to methylene chloride. The solvent does clean to a high degree leaving the metal fully exposed. I like to use methylene chloride based strippers for many things including removing thick layers of oil soaked road grit that coat automotive motors and transmissions.

Sodium metasilicate will pit aluminum and magnesium and is often used in over the counter water based degreasers.

I run the original lube until it gets wet a time or two than go to a full clean and resoak. You don't need to heat an oil to make it thin and easy flowing. You can add an evaporating solvent to it. This is what most chain lubes do now. You apply the lube and let it pull in and then the carrier solvent evaporates leaving a now heavier weight lube behind. The carrier solvent is often chosen for its capillary action. Water pulls all kinds of chemicals and contamination deep into chains. Cycling chain rollers, pins and plates have a large amount of float by design. This lets dust in. Crunchy grit is not want kills chains it is the fine dust that mixes with the lube and turns to a grinding paste. Old format oils are far more prone to becoming a grinding paste than many of the new lubes. The key is not a thick coating but a molecular level film that fills the voids and clings to the steel.

Compressed air works well to dewater a chain.

I agree that it is better to simply re oil a chain than to partly clean it. The real key to keeping a chain is to oil it often enough that it s not run "dry"

Lots of good info here that I didn't know, for example, the use of an evaporating solvent in chain lube. However, I'm living by your last statement for the following reasons:

1. I'm lazy. If I have to take a chain off or use a chain-cleaning gadget, I won't get around to it often enough.

2. Although water-born dirt can get into the space between pins and rollers, it can only happen if the space isn't filled with lube. Fluids move from wet to dry by evaporation, so, theoretically, if you can keep the space filled with lube, dirt won't enter. In theory, re-oiling puts oil in the spaces not already filled with factory grease. The oil also coats external surfaces of the chain, preventing (or at least slowing down) loss of the factory grease through evaporation.

3. I avoid riding in wet conditions.

Anyway, that's my wishful thinking. I have several new chains that will eventually prove or disprove my method of chain maintenance.

The space between the pins, plates and rollers is not fully filled with lube. Water moves everywhere inuding uphill. Water in and of itself is not an issue it is how the lube deals with the water. Some thick lubes will blend the water into a oil/water foam of sorts. This causes the films to fail. Some of the dry type films are largely unaffected by water. The chain gets wet it dries out and the lube is still there clinging to the metal.

Even using a crevace tool tool and a wet dry vacuum to suck the water out of a mounted chain works. I also sometimes wash the bike and blow everything dry with a leaf vac or compressed air. Both work well to dry the chain out and prepare it for a re oiling. The key is making room for new lube and letting it soak in deep

I ride year round in some real crap weather. I only break out the rain bike for salty road conditions. I wash salt off as often as weather conditions permit

Well, I displayed my ignorance. The bike looks much better than the '60s Ford Falcon car I was imagining. I should have read your signature line more carefully. Beautiful powder coat job!

Scars; Wisdom in the flesh.

A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others.