You're most welcome. I minored in mechanical-engineering (major was microbiology with emphasis in physiology). I actually did work in a bike-shop for 10-years and at Bike'alog for 10-years. But it was really the 10-years of road-racing (6-years track racing during that time as well) that showed me the nitty-gritty of what worked well and was most effective in a lot of areas. A lot of the shop-training is about time-efficiency and profits rather than top-notch mechanical functionality. My time at the shop was over when I pulled out the torche and starting building my own bike-parts because there were none nthe market like I wanted. I actually made a threadless stem back in 1990 during my weight-weenie days. :)

I don't think it's necessary to thin out the oil. Gear-oil 75w-90 is actually the same viscosity as 10w-40 motor-oil. The measurement standards are different.

The need for thinning came from back in the days of 1/8" chains with bushings. Due to tight clearances, the only way for oil to get in was at the ends of the bushings. And if you have a thick oil that dripped down to both ends of the bushing, it would trap an air-space in between and no oil would flow in. Thus the need to thin it out. However, with modern bushingless index-compatible chains, there are larger clearances to allow the lateral-flex needed for index-shifting. This allows plenty of oil to get into the inside of the rollers without needing to thin it first. Also thinning a lot of oils with mineral-spirits causes a chemical reaction that slightly rubberizes it.

Actually, I recall reading that teams bought Sedissport chain in 100M rolls and cut a new one for each bike each day or so.

Also, I can't believe this thread is still alive. I guess only threads on lubes last this long. Even Campy vs Shimano debates die out sooner. :)

Very true. I remember when I first learned to drive in the late 50's an engine with 60,000 miles was very likely due for a "ring and valve job" and a car with 100,000 miles made the newspapers. Now 100,000 miles with only oil and filter changes causes no notice and 200,000 miles on an original engine is common.

Amsoil did OK on the various test, not winning any outright, but consistently near the top. I'm not sure what the 4-ball test has to do with engine-oil or wear though as it's only a test for gear-oil. The main issue with engine-oil and EP/AW additives is emissions. There's a delicate balance between injecting enough oil onto the cylinders for lubrication of the rings, versus too much that causes excessive emissions. If we can do an oil-gas mix like with 2-stroke engines, we'd get A LOT longer engine-durability, but emissions would be through the roof!!!

Modern engines have many wear-reducing technologies. High-silicon (hyper-eutectic) aluminium blocks with fibre additives makes for a much harder cylinder surface than the cast-iron of yore. Also harder coatings on the rings along with precision machining (measured in thousands of a millimeter, rather than inches), makes for extremely long-lasting engines. Heck nowadays, the consumer is more likely to get bored with their cars and buy new ones well before anything wears out appreciably.

Do the Pros actually lube their chains? Back when I was in the industry, they'd buy chains in bulk (the Sedisport black was a favorite; it was cheap and it shifted as well as anything else on the market) and they'd just replace the chain when it got dirty. It simply wasn't cost-effective to clean and re-lube a chain, but perhaps things have changed since then.

Yes, but who's going to measure it?

First, there's performance, and then there's wear.

Most cyclists are oblivious to the amount of friction their chains have. They ride on dry or grimy chains, and they don't know how much nicer they can make the bike ride with a little cleaning and lubing. Look at how many tires are underinflated!

Second, chains wear out. Worn chains wear out sprockets and sometimes even chainwheels. And when these things wear, how much of the wear do we attribute to bad chain hygiene and lubrication? And do we compare your wear with mine?

So we don't know, and to an extent, we don't care. The chain is a wear item, and it's cheaper than sprockets, so if you replace it before your sprockets wear out, it doesn't seem like a big deal.

I'm not saying none of this matters. I'm saying it matters to a different degree to everyone. So I don't know how to answer for everyone.

DannoXYZ, what kind of work are you doing now?

I was a bike shop mechanic from the ages of 17 to 23. I'm in the computer biz now.

I doubt even very good cyclists have the power to generate anywhere near that type of pressure in a standard chain though. What matters is finding a substance with adequate lubricity, which has the other properties a bike lube needs. Mostly a lube which won't attract too much grit. That's why I like prolink and white lightning: unlike motor oil, when you flex the chain from side to side in your hands, you don't feel grit crunching around inside.

As someone already pointed out, the pros very likely just pitch their old chains and put on new ones. What would be interesting would be to hear what the honest guys with 25,000 miles or more on one bike use. Some are not very scientific, some seem to not really remember (or realize) everything they do when boasting about the method they're committed to.

I've been using "Liquid Wrench" brand Chain Lube and I'm satisfied. Every 200-300 miles I clean the outside of the chain dampened in mineral spirits... let dry and apply the LW lube. Let dry a an hour or so or over night and it stays pretty well.
I used to use 5-W30 with a wipe down. Good lube but a bit messy.

I know, huh?

EDIT: I have a large supply of the following: ISO 68 synthetic machine lube oil, Break-Free CLP and a special industrial type of non-sling chain lube. I reckon Ill get on okay between them.
An old trick I remember from motorcycling was, once the chain is removed and cleaned, it was to be immersed in motor oil and heated. A coffee can was recommended, over a camp or kerosene stove. Presumably this heating would expand the metal bit of the chain and allow the oil to get in better - I dunno, I never tried it.

ATF is used in many manual transmissions.

Heh, heh... I started a computer-consulting biz after the Bike'alog. Did that for 10-years and put all the money into an auto-operation developing Porsche upgrades (primarily electronics upgrades for Turbo models and dyno-tuning). Then I got out of that and am now a commodities & futures-options trader. Each step separates trading my valuable time from a 1:1 relationship with earning a fixed amount of money. :)

My experience agrees with this. Lately I've been experimenting with some of the thicker oils like Phil Tenacious and Chain-L (FBinNY's lube...I am not affiliated in any way, BTW), and they get into the chain just fine without thinners and last >150 miles. You just need to let it soak in for 10 minutes or so before wiping. In fact, if you read the instructions for Chain-L, not only do they recommend against thinning it, but if you cleaned the chain beforehand, they want you to wait for all the cleaner to evaporate before applying the lube. Apparently the presence of solvent just reduces the amount of lube that will soak into the links via capillary action. I have some Lubrimatic 90w gear oil around somewhere that I used to use for lubing spoke nipples. Maybe I'll try that once I use up all the rest of my drawer full of boutique lubes.

Interesting way to put it.

I wore the 9spd chain out rather quickly, like 1,000 miles. I put on a new SRAM, and found it to be a grit magnet, until I cleaned it off. I'm not sure how one can clean a chain, without taking it off, as I find all but gravel starts to build up on the inner plates. I've learning to stay off dirt roads altogether with my 9spd setup. It just gets this nasty buildup on it, unless if it gets removed regularly--I attempted to not clean the chain, ever, for the first chain, and it wore out rather fast. I think the oil never got to the pin/bushing interface. [I also was using some old Pedro's stuff I had, this newer Finish Line Teflon stuff is way better.]

Oddly enough, I just had my chain off today (cleaned in paint thinner, set out in the sun to dry). Off the bike, I measure about 1/32 of wear; wish I wrote down when the chain went out, I'll guess 600 miles ago. It was a bit of shock to feel the play in the chain, with no old grease on it--chain is about 53.5" long, and has 9/32's of total play! I'd try letting it soak in some 5W20, and drip-drying; but I think lube "soaks in" reasonably well, if the chain isn't covered in mud.

ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid) is found in automatic planetary transmissions and NOT in manual "mechanical" transmission.
Manual transmissions are splash oiled (with a sump and the gears are half immersed in oil)
Automatic transmissions are immersed oiled, thus having higher loss of power and also more gearing for a selected step. Imersed oiling and ATF is used not for lubricating mosly, but for incompressible hydraulic actuators used for clutches and brakes to switch trough gears. It's basically the same stuff you find in power-steering and hydraulic front blade of front-loadars, excavators, bulldozers and other things with hydraulic pistons, volumetric hydraulic engines, and other hydraulic command and actuators.
So ATF is used in automatic getribe just for this stuff: the hydraulic unit of command and control of shifting, and also additivated and suited for light lubing the gears.
Also DSG getribe is also filled with ATF because it has lots of pumps, and hydraulic actuators that need oil to transmit movement between components rather than lubing (but lubing is also carefully controlled to be right)

Compressed air, maybe. You could blow the crud out from in between the plates.

Not any more.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...enance/2866671

And not always before. My 1946 Ford 2N tractor runs universal trans-hydraulic fluid as the straight cut, non-synchro trans, and the rear differential share the reservoir and fluid with the hydraulic system for the 3 point lift. Original spec was for straight 80WT mineral oil which is basically non available. It's been running the universal stuff for 35 years.

We ran ATF in Muncie 4-speed transmissions about 40 years ago.

ATF is also used in some current Tremec manual transmissions.

It always seemed like very tenacious stuff, and also able to get into small nooks and crannies. I wondered about using it for chain lube but I'm sure it would attract dirt.

I think that's the rub--figure out how to keep dirt away, and the chain wears fast(er). Use something that lubes the chain, and it becomes a dirt magnet.

Compressed air, that does sound like a good idea. Wish I tried that today. After I cleaned my chain, I let it dry in the sun (to evaporate off the mineral spirits). I put it back on the bike, lubed it, and as I spun the cranks, I could see the crud coming out from around the rollers. Maybe blowing it with compressed air would have helped--or using new paint thinner would have helped (it turns black very fast on my chains, like after 5 seconds). Oh well, a few more lubes and I think I'll just replace it in another 500 miles.

Do this test:

1. install brand-new chain on your bike

2. lube with your favourite mixture of the month, wipe off or not depending upon personal preference

3. put bike on trainer/rollers in hermetically sealed clean-room

4. lay several sheets of white paper on ground below chain

5. ride trainer/rollers for a couple hours while watching TDF videos


Now... answer these questions:


1. what colour is the oil on the rollers of the chain?

2. what colour is that stuff sprayed on the paper?

3. what IS that stuff???

1. what

The color of the lubricant on the chain and paper will likely be black...no argument there. The black color is from finely divided bits of steel...again no argument. The source of the finely divided steel is not from any steel that has been ground off the chain. Not after only a couple of hours, anyway. Most likely it's finely divided bits of steel that are left over from the manufacturing process.

Since you are in an experimental mood, try the same experiment as above but this time, clean the chain in clean solvent. Remove all traces of previous lubrication. Apply a dry lube...my weapon of choice is White Lightning. Repeat steps 3 to 5. Now answer the same 3 questions.

I'll answer them for you. 1. Transparent. 2. What stuff? 3. Again, what stuff?

Why would you lube a brand new chain? [I guess you could say I'm in the camp that believes the factory lube is just that--lube.] I'd ride it until it got dirty, then clean it--that lube seems to be a grit magnet.

It also lubes the geartrain of automatic transmissions.

My point is, it is a gear lube. I don't know if it has the compounds the other poster was interested in, but it is designed to lube gears.

However, like you say, any oil-type stuff seems to attract and hold grit.

I prefer to use a wax like white lightning, then put on a little pro-link when the chain starts to squeak. You get shiny clean rollers and no noise.

Again, I doubt it's really about the lubricity. Chains could probably be lubed with bacon grease if it didn't go rancid, if they ran in a grit free environment.

Borg-Warner specified ATF for use in its T5 manual which equipped both the Mustang and Camaro in the 1980s. I don't follow cars so much anymore but I believe that wasn't the only time a manufacturer specified ATF for a manual. So I'd say i'ts found in "automatic planetary transmissions and NOT in MOST manual "mechanical" transmission."

BTW, what's your point? Do automatics fail sooner than manuals because the gears wear out? If a turning gear is half immersed it's still covered in oil.