Tunnelrat81

I was brought to this question lately when I decided to do a service on my wife's '07 Specialized Ruby Comp. It's wheelset is as follows:

Hubs: Specialized branded ????
Spokes: Straight gauge 14...straight pull (the funny slotted flange design used by mavic also)
Rim: Mavic CXP 22.

I've had zero problems with these wheels, and they probably only have a 2-3k miles on them.

While servicing I found some pitting in the bearing cones...so I thought, "no big deal, just order up some replacements...." Went to the LBS specialized dealership, where they ordered some cones...the wrong ones. Not sure if it's even possible to source them. The axle size and threading matches, but the actual machined surface is too large...for both wheels. The rear wheel bearings *seem* to be resting adequately on their bearing surface of the cone despite the fact that they're larger (bearings rolling nearer the 'tip' of the cone) but the front cones won't engage at all.

Beyond this, the original cones have little rubber seals on them that help protect against dust etc...and the new ones, of course, do not.

So I'm wondering, in a properly equipped machine shop. Would it be possible (advisable) to mount the cone in a lathe and somehow remachine a 'fresh surface' where the pitting was? Our department has a machinist who's quite good, and is willing to do the work. I'm just wondering if it's a good idea...or if there's a specific way that you would recommend doing it? I realize that the cones should be hardened steel and will be difficult to work with perhaps. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

-Jeremy

BCRider

The tooling marks from machining will leave too coarse a track. The correct way to redo them would be to set up and use a very fine surface finishing stone in a tool post grinder. If he doesn't have that sort of thing then you're wasting his and your time.

It sure sounds to me like there's two different models of hub out there since you got new cones that are way off for size and even for features since your old ones have integral seals while the new ones did not. I'd take pictures of your old cones and send Specialized an email with the picture attached and ask what the part number is and if they can send two of them to you.

jccaclimber

1) I wouldn't expect any pitting after 2-3x miles, although I rarely deal with anything new below Ultegra, which may have something to do with it. All my other wheel experience is stuff old enough to expect that.
2) The rubber seals may come off the old ones and fit on the new ones. If not, your design is different. Shimano is usually decent at carrying parts for the past couple generations of product. I'm not sure about the others.
3) You'd need to grind a new face on to the cones. That in its self isn't going to be cost effective unless you're being given a very generous rate for shop time, or the shop just happens to have a fixture for it. Despite that, good cones are also hardened, so you'll have to deal with that.
4) If you're all the way out on the very tip of the cones pay attention to them. I tried that once and noticed it feeling gritty soon. Turns out the nose of the cone had fractured off into a series of hard little bits..

powers2b

Cones are case hardened.
Once the outer layer is cracked or worn through (search for spalling failure on the net) they are done.
Cones are also cheap wear items. The bearing system is designed that way on purpose.
The cones always wear first, and are made to be replaced, the cups last longer and are integrated into the hub since they only wear in extreme cases.
Pressed in bearings are a different animal.

Enjoy

Garthr

Sorry to hear about you hubs. I see Specialized has really gone downhill, and that's a damm shame. Why they don't use cartridge bearings is beyond me. They used to .... I have sets of their hubs from the early 80's that will last forever.

I'd see if Specialized will do anything for you, they shouldn't fail like this.

TallRider

I agree, just replace the cones. Even if you could reface them and didn't deal with the issue of their being surface-hardened (so stuff below that surface isn't as hard as should be), it's still unlikely you'd get proper curvature and tolerances compared to the actual factory-production of the cones.

edit: I will disagree with Garthr about ball-and-cone bearings being a problem. Shimano uses these in their upper-level hubs. (I've got a specialized ball-and-cone front hub on one wheel that I built and it's fine so far, albeit only 3k miles)
Obviously there are pros and cons to different bearing designs, but I've never had any problem with ball-and-cone stuff.

HillRider

+1. I've got a pair of 9-speed Dura Ace (7700-series) hubs with 55,000 miles on the original cones and races and they are still in excellent condition. I've worked on 105 and Ultegra hubs with in excess of 30,000 miles on the original cones and races that were also in good condition. There is nothing inherently inferior or fragile about that design.

BCRider

Not all cones are case hardened. Being stubborn I've actually ground back a few pitted cones using my own machines and they survived quite well for many years afterwards. The ones I did were a mix of Shimano and "other". So based on this I'd say that case hardened cones are actually more rare.

Consider too that these days it's much easier to use heat treatable alloys and harden all the way through in big batch heat treatments as opposed to much the same process but with hot case hardening salts being needed. So cost control would suggest that it's easier to use materials that will harden as part of their makeup rather than go to the trouble of case hardening.

Tunnelrat81

I think I will take some pictures of the parts and send them to Specialized. I was told by the shop that if I ordered replacement cones that they'd come with all the stock seals...but then something didn't get through and the cones they sent were the wrong thread, with no seals bla bla bal. A different mechanic raided through his bins and sold me four cones that were 'close' but not right. This is the shop that I typically avoid unless I have to, but the shop I bought the bike from got the axe from Specialized so they don't carry them anymore, and likely don't have the greatest relationship with them. I went to the shop I did because they are currently a specialized dealership and are like 4 blocks from my house.

It's my theory that the bearing tension wasn't properly set from the factory, resulting in the premature failure. It's frustrating because everything else about the set has been perfect. AND since they are 24h front/ 28h rear, I can't just buy some new 105 hubs and rebuild the perfect rims to new spokes/hubs. Most of the hubs that come in lower spoke counts aren't the kind that you can find discounted on ebay. So we'll see how things go if I have to give up on these. I have PLENTY of respect for cup and cone hubs, and feel that had I known to check them over and readjust when I first bought the bike for my wife, they'd have been good to go. They even had a decent amount of good grease left in them. Just either running too tight or poor quality parts. No way to know.

-Jeremy