Penny wise....

Well Dan the Man - tell you exactly what I got from your posting:

You went to three different shops on three different ocassions and each time it was for an extremely minor purchase. The staff at each of these shops was - in your opinion - incompetant and charged more than you thought the parts were worth as well - but you paid it anyway.

And for some reason you also seem to feel entitled to a volume price for a part even though you aren`t buying in volume. Seems you think shipping is also free on the Internet. It is on some sites - but only for purchases over $100 or so.

So since you`re obviously too hard up for money to send your bike in to have the work done at a shop, and since you feel more competant than any of the staff at those three shops - suggest you apply for a job there.

Posting threads like this basicly means you have time to burn so do something constructive with the situation. Otherwise I`d have to say your real problem is just being `cheap`.

Lets see, you paid the price for convenience and to avoid internet shipping charges.

And your beef is what?

I buy quite a bit on line, I stock up ahead of time, hit the clearance sales hard. That way, I save quite a bit on parts. But when I do go to a local shop, I pay their price and do not complain, as I understand there is going to be a sizable markup for this convenience. If the bike shop business was super profitable, there would be more of them.

I do not ask for, nor do I expect, free advice. When I have questions they answer, I always make sure I buy something.

And of course, on line, you are not going to have someone size the bearings for you, try out various bolts and clamps, etc. To "save money" on line, you need to know exactly what you want, and group orders to overcome the shipping expense. (Or group orders with a couple of buddies).

As far as nuts and bolts, I always buy them at a local bolt supply house, you have to buy a box or the price is high. I like stainless allen head bolts, so I tend to load up on a couple of sizes and styles. If you want one or two bolts, then go to the local hardware store or Lowes. Note they mark them up quite a bit too.

I think only one person really hit the mark in this thread. Small parts, labor and accessories is absolutely where shops make their living. No shop makes enough money on just bikes, the retail mark-up simply is not nearly enough to make a living on. It's hard enough to make a living in the bike industry, I know, I did it for over ten years and I was actually in what I think was the top of the game being a professional framebuilder...it doesn't get any better than that. But then again, it's hard to pay the bills. Everyone wants to pay what THEY think is fair, not what's actually good for the business. Sure, they can sell you stuff for dirt cheap....and then go out of business. You still end up buying stuff online (which I do as well), pay shipping, have zero personal interaction....and then your taxes end up paying the now ex-shop employees unemployment until they find a new job. Retail is a big picture situation, the success of a business affects everyone. That being said, you are also a free consumer with no obligation to shop anywhere you don't want to, and you have the ability to be a smart consumer by doing a little research for yourself regarding finding the best deal for your wallet.

Well thanks for the inputs. Obviously this time I paid for the convenience of going local, but I think in the future my relationship with the local bike shops is pretty much done. I'll make the trip to MEC when there are enough bike things that I need.

Paying $10 for something you don't feel is worth that price means you'll be dissatisfied with having paid it. I'd have walked out without paying that price for that very reason.
Otoh, that means I'd have had to go find the part elsewhere and maybe ended up back at the same shop later if I couldn't find it cheaper - definitely no happier, but I'd have left with the part then.
It's the gamble you take any time you buy something retail --- different shops, different inventory and prices.

I'd mark this shop/experience in my memory and probably not return there for small parts ever again.

"Entitled", "hard up for money", "time to burn", "cheap". What are you charging for the personality profile?

You're still not paying anything extra for the advice.. You're getting the product you pay for. People walking in asking for no advice would pay the same price for the same product. If you wanna pay for the advice, hand them a $5 bill and call it a tip for the advice.

When an allen wrench slipped I rounded out a bolt that holds in the tension pulley in my derailer. At the LBS they looked for one but couldnt find it. So they ordered me a "kit" of small bolts etc for my derailer. It cost was $11. Yes that is almost abusive.

BTW no it is not abusive to ask the question in this thread.

I am cheap! I shop for price. But I value my two LBS. I probably have spent under $200 at each since I started riding last June, so I'm not a money maker for them. But I treat them with respect, I make sure I thank them when they help, I make sure I pay the low-brow LBS with cash because I know that's his preference, and I've even tipped them $5 a couple of times. The employees at both shops know me and they have given me fantastic service, several times at no charge. I've had 3 mechanics at once give me their preferences and advice on which handlebar tape to buy. They have interrupted their work to re-install a crank set that I had done incorrectly on a Saturday.

A LBS is almost undoubtedly not a very profitable business. I would expect that the most expensive items have the lowest markup and the cheapest the highest markup. Probably the most PITA parts to find and sell are going to be exactly what you were buying. Since you had to go to "a few" stores to get this small number of parts, they were probably pretty obscure parts. Ultimately you did get exactly what you needed. That's wonderful. That's worth something, IMO. And maybe you would get a lower price for the loose ball bearings if they knew you, if you were a regular.

It's the "You're NOT paying US to do the repair..well you'll pay thru the nose anyway" syndrome.
I had a LBS hit me with a $30. 'service' charge above the adjustemnts to install the 12-27 cassette on the Moto..even tho I bought the Sram 10spd chain thru them.
(sort of offset the savings gotten thru ordering the cassette on line last winter)
On the flip side, these are the same folks who-although the bike wasn't bought from them-straightened the derailleur hanger and readjusted the 6600 derailleur for $10 (and in 10 minutes)after I lamely laid the bike down on it's derailleur.
I have 3 5 tier bins of small parts I've either acquired thru teardowns and salvages or outright bought from the Gillmores at Loose Screws. Always bought 6 if I needed one. Save the shipping cost and price increase of 'next time'
That said: The new stuff is changing so rapidly one can't acquire used components to hone ones skills on (as we could back in the day)
All that said:
IN Western New York there's a community bicycle work shop (and I'm certain other cities/areas have similar )
and they've been invaluable in finding odd ball parts and 'only need one' items.
Ex: searched high and low and even eBay for a 36 hole 7spd cassette style hub.
Found it at this work shop...$5.
Uncertain if it's nationwide: Try Googling Blue Bike and your citys name)

What I get from this post is that he went to three different shops on three different occasions for three unrelated reasons. Not that he shopped at three shops gathering parts for one tune up session.

Dan, So the guy with the nut and screw tried a total of TWO nuts to find one that fit the recess and then added a washer and screw? Did all this take about 3 to 5 minutes or was he rooting around for 15 minutes to find the second one?

The bearing balls would have been an easy job to count out and I can't see the whole transaction taking more than about 2 minutes. Now $10 may seem like a lot for some balls but at the 100 or 1000 lot prices you're looking at a buck or two for the balls you bought plus the convienience of having them there and being able to buy them in the number you needed. So while I agree that it's a lot I don't feel it's the "rip off" that it sounds like you got charged for the one screw, washer and nut. I'd expect that a "good deal" on the same balls would have been $6 and a fair deal $8. As the others say the shop needs to keep the lights on and doors open and that all costs.

$4 for a specialty part off a brake isn't outlandish at all. Even if they picked it out of a junk box it got your bike back into running order. That's worth $4 vs the likelyhood of having to buy a whole brake set. Last I saw it was pretty hard to find brake parts other than replacement pads. The normal method is to just replace with new assemblies.

So to be fair I think the only honest beef you have is maybe with the guy that overcharged on the screw and nut. The rest is just the cost of not collecting and storing all that other stuff yourself.

Well if that is the market price in your area then that's it. Either don't buy, order online, or start your own parts business. Last week I received a shipment of cut spokes but cheapo me did not buy nipples. Some of my used nipples were stripped. $0.25 at the local bike shop, one of the few that sold them without buying a spoke. I am personally glad a well stocked store with a decent staff was willing to locate and sell $5 + tax of spoke nipples.

Oh, good, that's what we charge a few blocks down the street. We don't have as much time for good advice, though.

I normally don't like to respond to my own posts, but I would like to reinforce this sellers recommendation by saying when I posted this, I had, in fact just purchased these through Ebay 20 minutes prior. They arrived today, shipped form Orlando, Florida to Tucson, Arizona.

to be honest, the prices don't sound that bad to me. I spent half an hour rooting around in the local hardware store and ended up spending ~$10 on some hardware to install my front rack. Didn't end up needing it all. To have someone give me exactly the hardware I needed without having to look for it would have been worth several bucks (to have it shipped with the rack would have been even better, but each fork is different and I'm glad they sent as much as they did so I knew where to start).

I bought parts other than just the balls. We chatted while he was getting everything ready. Really no extra time spent on his part.

I did buy a few extra things based on their advice, so it was profitable for them as well.

Paul

Your computer must be much better than mine - or maybe you have some inside info that I don`t.

I checked out that site and couldn`t find any grade 25 bearings in any size. ain fact the only description I could find listed against even the bicycle specific kit was `NEW`.

I did find lots of 100 5/32 ball bearings for $6, and also lots of 5 (FIVE) 5/32 ball bearings for $12 and neither had a grade posted against them so I have no idea how anyone is expected to know what they`re buying.

And based on my experiences with some Chinese suppliers who offerred to write whatever grade we wanted on some bearings - think I`ll stick to reputable sources.

i have a fairly good relationship with my LBS and when I am looking for a strange part, I prefer to root around the broken parts bins myself and not waste the time of the mechanics. I got the few small parts for a good price, but I spent an hour looking for a pulley bushing. Now if some of the employees sat there digging through the parts bin for an hour they may have charged me for their time to find it.

Click on these links and you'll easily find exactly what I described. Scroll down a bit and you'll get the info you were missing, including a very complete description of what grade 25 is,

Grade 25 Chrome steel bearing balls are widely used in precision ball bearings as well as most aerospace, transportation and industrial applications.Chromium (Cr) has a tendency to increase hardness, toughness and wear resistance of steel. Chrome steel is a chrome alloy carbon steel, not a chrome plated steel.

Chrome steel balls have excellent surface quality, high hardness and high load bearing capacity as a result of through hardening (Rockwell C 60-67). Chrome steel is approximetly 96% iron and fully magnetic.

https://cgi.ebay.com/100-5-32-Chrome-...item588d7f4b21
https://cgi.ebay.com/100-1-4-Chrome-s...item483ff1f383

Absolutely no reason to think this source is any less reputable than any other.

Wow, some good deals there. Thanks for the links. Hate to get this thread even more off track, but why not..

What are the common bearing sizes for bicycles? I've always just gone to my LBS with the old one and bought a new set. I know 1/4 is for loose ball bottom brackets, and rear hubs, right? What do you use 5/32 for?

Thanks.

I use 5/32 for headsets. Sheldon Brown listed the common sizes an uses on this page
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/bearings.html

Excellent, thank you. My bearing situation will be much better now.

Just to be clear, that seller offers grade 25 balls, as well as lower grades. He specifies exactly which ones are being offered in a particular listing. Be sure to read the full description of the specific balls you're buying to be sure you get what you want.

FWIW,

These can be bought for less than $4 per 100. You have the shipping to deal with but if you buy a few sizes for stock, you will be fine.
https://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRIT...-SearchResults