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Stuck old Freewheel

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Old 09-22-11 | 12:11 AM
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Stuck old Freewheel

So, I recently picked up an old Schwinn Varsity, much to my dissatisfaction, and managed to talk down down the price enough that I felt it was a decent buy even with its shortcomings. (Those being mostly aesthetic problems)

The main issue I'm having with this bike is that the freewheel 'cogs' don't spin at all. It's like they're glued or something. With a pair of thick gloves I can apply enough hand-torque to rotate them, but it takes an inordinate amount of force for something that should freely spin with a distinctive click-click-click.

What do you guys think could be causing this? Is it a massive build-up of gunk and grease, maybe some plant matter or string lodged in the mechanism? Is it possible for something to lodge in there like that, or does this represent a critical mechanical failure that necessitates replacement of the entire freewheel? For reference, every single cog is stuck and none of them spin freely. I'm on the fence about spending ten bucks on a freewheel removal adapter, under the concern that maybe the freewheel isn't even salvageable. I may be mistaken, but I believe freewheels can't have their 'cogs' disassembled like modern cassettes can, right?

I'm a broke student and am desperately trying to save enough money to buy a proper Peugeot, which if possible will take precedence over fixing up this old Varsity. If any of you guys have experience with this in the past, could you render a broke kid any advice? If I can just buy the adapter, strip the freewheel off, and maybe soak it in some violent caustic acid (well, just mineral spirits) for a few hours and put it all back together to form a working bicycle, I'd be a very happy camper.

Thanks in advance!

P.S. Don't tell me to throw the entire Varsity in the trash or take it to the scrap yard to get some more money for the Peugeot. Yes the thought has occurred to me many times, but I'm not going to get rid of it even though it's made out of lead.

Last edited by Brusilov; 09-22-11 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 09-22-11 | 12:43 AM
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You need a bench vise (can be fairly small one), the proper removal tool for
your particular freewheel (it's a tool, not an adapter), some sort of penetrating
oil like break free or PB Blaster, and a certain amount of ambition.

Hit the freewheel front and back with the penetrant, so it gets down to the threads
on the hub. Put it aside and wait ten or fifteen minutes. Oil it again, same places.

Put your tool upside down in the vise (business end up).

Hold your wheel horizontally over the tool and slip the wheel down on it
so the tool engages whatever notches or splines are interior on the freewheel.
With your hands at about 180 degrees on the wheel rim, pressing down
somewhat so it stays on your tool, pull as hard as you can manage in a counter
clockwise direction. If you are lucky, the freewheel will break free and you can
spin it the rest of the way off.

Throw it away and scrounge or buy a new freewheel. They are pretty cheap.

If you are unlucky, either the tool notches/splines in the freewheel will strip
and you have to come back here and ask about destructive removal.

On occasion, the hub will break, and your wheel is ruint.

Welcome to the world of bicycle repair.

p.s.
throw the entire Varsity in the trash or take it to the scrap yard to get some more money for the Peugeot.
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Old 09-22-11 | 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Brusilov
..The main issue I'm having with this bike is that the freewheel 'cogs' don't spin at all. It's like they're glued or something. With a pair of thick gloves I can apply enough hand-torque to rotate them, but it takes an inordinate amount of force for something that should freely spin with a distinctive click-click-click.

What do you guys think could be causing this? Is it a massive build-up of gunk and grease, maybe some plant matter or string lodged in the mechanism? Is it possible for something to lodge in there like that, or does this represent a critical mechanical failure that necessitates replacement of the entire freewheel? For reference, every single cog is stuck and none of them spin freely. I'm on the fence about spending ten bucks on a freewheel removal adapter, under the concern that maybe the freewheel isn't even salvageable. I may be mistaken, but I believe freewheels can't have their 'cogs' disassembled like modern cassettes can, right?

.. could you render a broke kid any advice?
First off, freewheel sprockets, like cassette sprockets, aren't meant to spin individually. They should stick together - but spin freely on the hub in one direction and engage in the other.

And spinning on the hub has nothing to do with the sprockets themselves, it's down to an internal pawl and ratchet mechanism. Only reason to fiddle with loose sprockets is if you want a custom set of tooth counts - or if you're trying to replace a few sprockets that are more worn than the others.

Freewheels regularly get gunked up. They can be disassembled, but a more common approach is either to flush them (a net search should offer plenty) or simply to replace them. They're still readily available at a modest cost.
Gunk only will usually result in the pawls not engaging, not the near-solid lock you're describing. Your case may be more sinister.

If you decide to go for the replace option, do note that they can be stuck on something wicked. The splined Shimano standard is fairly robust, but the 2-prong version comes with a definite risk of stripping the puller interface. May be prudent to have the lbs do the job.
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Old 09-22-11 | 04:13 AM
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First, you could try dribbling a little 10w-30 or similar oil inside the freewheel while it's still on the wheel. Maybe then, with some brute force and luck, you can get it back to spinning. Lay the wheel flat and notice which part spins, and which is stationary. Get some oil worked down between the there and loosen it up.
After you've wasted 1/2 hour doing that, remove the freewheel and put on a new one.
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Old 09-22-11 | 05:40 AM
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Is this a Positron bike with a front freewheeling mechanism? (The chainwheels freewheel on the crank so the bike can be shifted while coasting) If so, those bikes came with a cluster that will freewheel but only under a lot of pressure.
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Old 09-22-11 | 06:18 AM
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Try spraying WD 40 or another silicon spray. Chances, it won't work.

Then try a carburetor cleaner spray, they are absolutely terrific for melting away grease. However, there won't be any lubrication so you will have to spray a lube once it's free. I recommend Dura Lube spray.

To try to turn the freewheel, you may want to use a chainwhip, same as for a cassette. Of course your goal is not to remove it with the chainwhip, that's impossible, just to turn it.

All freewheels use a different tool, there are two dozen or more different sockets though there are only a few more common ones. Don't buy the tool unless you have a vise to use, it's impossible to remove without a vise. Go to a LBS and pay them $5 or $10 to remove.
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Old 09-22-11 | 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by kingsting
Is this a Positron bike with a front freewheeling mechanism? (The chainwheels freewheel on the crank so the bike can be shifted while coasting) If so, those bikes came with a cluster that will freewheel but only under a lot of pressure.
That is a possibility. A picture of the crankset would help.
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Old 09-22-11 | 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Lawrence08648
Try spraying WD 40 or another silicon spray. Chances, it won't work.

Then try a carburetor cleaner spray, they are absolutely terrific for melting away grease. However, there won't be any lubrication so you will have to spray a lube once it's free. I recommend Dura Lube spray.

To try to turn the freewheel, you may want to use a chainwhip, same as for a cassette. Of course your goal is not to remove it with the chainwhip, that's impossible, just to turn it.

All freewheels use a different tool, there are two dozen or more different sockets though there are only a few more common ones. Don't buy the tool unless you have a vise to use, it's impossible to remove without a vise. Go to a LBS and pay them $5 or $10 to remove.
Not impossible to remove with out a vice, I've done plenty using a long wrench, and body weight. Just don't put the wheel between your legs(ouch). Taking apart a freewheel is in the more trouble than it's worth category. There are lots of tiny ball bearings in there that will escape and run to freedom when released. Soaking in mineral spirits may help free it up, but be sure to drip some oil in there. My guess is that it's rusted on the inside. Dripping PB Blaster may also free it up, but it won't last long. Just replace it.
Are there any bike co-ops in your area? They might have the tool you need to take it off.
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Old 09-22-11 | 10:24 AM
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If you do remove the freewheel, in addition to the advice above, use a qr skewer to hold the tool onto the freewheel. It should be almost tight, with just a tiny wiggle. This will stop the tool from slipping out of the freewheel. Once it breaks loose 1/2 a turn, remove the qr skewer and the freewheel should come off pretty easily.
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Old 09-22-11 | 10:51 AM
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All great, sound advice above...I had to remove a two prong freewheel a while back and it took me and three gorillas to break it free, and I'm a big guy.

Last edited by echo; 09-22-11 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 09-22-11 | 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01
If you do remove the freewheel, in addition to the advice above, use a qr skewer to hold the tool onto the freewheel. It should be almost tight, with just a tiny wiggle. This will stop the tool from slipping out of the freewheel. Once it breaks loose 1/2 a turn, remove the qr skewer and the freewheel should come off pretty easily.
Good procedure for QR hubs, but the OP did say he was dealing with a Varsity.
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Old 09-22-11 | 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bleukahuna
Good procedure for QR hubs, but the OP did say he was dealing with a Varsity.
Oh yeah, well then, spin the outer washer & axle nut on instead, leaving it just a tiny bit loose.
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Old 09-22-11 | 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lawrence08648
Try spraying WD 40 or another silicon spray. Chances, it won't work.
The wd40 trick has worked for me. Brought the freewheel back to life and it's still going strong today (3 years later). The bonus is, you don't have to remove it from the hub.
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Old 09-22-11 | 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kingsting
Is this a Positron bike with a front freewheeling mechanism? (The chainwheels freewheel on the crank so the bike can be shifted while coasting) If so, those bikes came with a cluster that will freewheel but only under a lot of pressure.

Almost certainly not. The OP said he had a Varsity. The same bike with Shimano's FFS and Positron was a Caliente- far more rare.
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Old 09-22-11 | 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills
Almost certainly not. The OP said he had a Varsity. The same bike with Shimano's FFS and Positron was a Caliente- far more rare.
I've don't know about that. I've seen at least ½ doz varsitys with FFS around here.
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Old 09-22-11 | 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
I've don't know about that. I've seen at least ½ doz varsitys with FFS around here.

Seriously? Hmmm... I need to put some time into looking at old Schwinn catalogs.
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Old 09-23-11 | 05:07 PM
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Hey guys, sorry for the delay! I haven't been at the computer in a while. By looking at the 'teeth' and comparing pictures of different tools I'm fairly convinced that it's a Shimano freewheel. Here's a picture of the assembly, for whatever good it may do;



I sprayed it with some penetrating oil and left it in the garage all night; I'm going to go out later and apply some torque to see if the cogs are spinning now. I'm not too optimistic though; I think maybe the suggestion of just replacing the freewheel may be a sound one. I don't know much about cassettes and freewheels, so I'm not sure what numbers like 13-28 and 14-28 indicate, but do you guys think this would be a sufficient replacement to toss on there?

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Tourne...6818843&sr=8-1

Or maybe this one? It's shinier looking

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-510-00...6818843&sr=8-3
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Old 09-23-11 | 07:28 PM
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That's a Shimano Front freewheel system. the freewheel is on the crank.
https://youtu.be/vOyiDEFjE5w

https://youtu.be/duFDfTcOftY

You can do some searches on it. The individual cogs move on the rear and VERY stiffly. The setup was such that you can shift while coasting.

Jeff Wills - I believe most were varsity "deluxe" models.

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Old 09-23-11 | 07:49 PM
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Yes, and it will probably have a FFS (Front Freewheel System) stamped on it somewhere.
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Old 09-23-11 | 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
That's a Shimano Front freewheel system. the freewheel is on the crank.
https://youtu.be/vOyiDEFjE5w

https://youtu.be/duFDfTcOftY

You can do some searches on it. The individual cogs move on the rear and VERY stiffly. The setup was such that you can shift while coasting.

Jeff Wills - I believe most were varsity "deluxe" models.
Okey-dokey- "DeLuxe Varsity" I can believe.

Brusilov: the Shimano "freewheel" used with the FFS system uses a different freewheel tool than the much more common "Uniglide" type. It is not the Shimano TL-FW30 or Park PA-FR1. Bicycle Research makes one, it's their #CT-4: https://www.bicycleresearchtools.com/...l#anchor270825
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Old 09-23-11 | 11:28 PM
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Wow, I've never seen anything like that before. That's very unique. Okay, so I can see that the rear cogs are intended to be kind of stiff; does this mean that it's a rare part that I can't replace with any bargain bin freewheel?

I'm going to keep shooting it with penetrating oil because it's still much more stiff than in that second video you posted. Does anyone know how to disassemble a Front Freewheel? I'd really like to regrease the bearings; they seem fairly dirty and I don't think it spins as efficiently as it could.

Is there anything in particular I should know about this system?
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Old 09-23-11 | 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Brusilov

Is there anything in particular I should know about this system?
It was a technological dead end and deservedly so.
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Old 09-23-11 | 11:47 PM
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It was a technological dead end and deservedly so.


I'm beginning to think that the 60$ I paid for it was perhaps far too much... Is this bicycle worth getting in working order? I mean, if everything is back to functioning smoothly again can I even get the 60$ I paid for it back?
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Old 09-24-11 | 06:00 AM
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I don't get the purpose of the individually freewheeling cogs. What am I missing there?
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Old 09-24-11 | 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Brusilov
I'm beginning to think that the 60$ I paid for it was perhaps far too much... Is this bicycle worth getting in working order? I mean, if everything is back to functioning smoothly again can I even get the 60$ I paid for it back?

MY opinion? Yes, no, and who really knows.

Edit: This is actually a reasonable candidate for fixed gear conversion.
And there are a lot of those kids who love their Schwinn Varsities. That's
who I'd try to sell it to and might be your best out.

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