Any LBS that does work on these low-end bikes ensures that this consumer type will never be back to buy a bike from them. And, they can't make any money working on them so why bother?

Funniest thing I've seen was a sign on LBS wall- "We don't fix no f*****g Huffys!" A little harsh perhaps but always good for a laugh, in a redneck sorta way.

I think being Thrifty is a virtue. There's nothing wrong with purchasing a department store bike and maximizing the use of it for your needs. Some of the time, I commute my 18 miles rt on a single-speed I got from Nashbar for $146 plus s/h. It was adequate, but for safety reasons, I rebuilt the front wheel, and re-tensioned the back, overhauled the entire bike, re-cut the cables/housing, and bought new dual pivot caliper brakes with pads that could actually stop me. And I bought a new saddle and new 700 x 32C tires, new rear rack, lighting system, etc. The bike cost about $300 after all my "upgrades." And my main reason for getting it in the first place was the crmo -steel- frame. But that's because it could be upgraded in small part and not require a wholesale stripping and dumping of worthless component. Plus the relaxed geometry was pretty ideal for commuting on flat ground. The question is whether I would upgrade parts on an $80 xMart bike to begin with. And probably not. And xMart BSO doesn't start with semi-aero double wall alloy rims and stainless spokes, which I sort of need at my size. The $80 xMart BSO also has a tendency to have a real cheesy and weak seat post collar, often integrated as part of the seat stay weld on these super-heavy aluminum frames. So it doesn't even have a cheap $3 seat post collar that can be replaced. It will likely break for someone like me during a year or two of use and adjustment. And the headset/BB are simply unusable, and I'm likely to find that the headset is still threaded and using a super-cheap quill stem. I need something threadless, 1 1/8th inch and beefy. If I were to try and source acceptable parts, I'd have to pay $20 for a headset, another $30 for a good BB, $50 for a halfway passable crankset, $30 for an RD, $20 for new cables and housing, new brakes ($45), new levers ($15), new FD ($20), new rims and spokes and hubs ($90), new stem ($15)... and it grows. We're talking $300 in parts. And it's going onto a frame that isn't likely to have ever been aligned, chased/faced, and may have a weak seat post collar. The $250 CCM Excelsior is starting to look like a much better value to start with as does my $146 Nashbar SS Hounder with a few add-ons and upgrades.

So I don't think you're wrong defending -some- dept. store bikes. To be sure, we're in agreement that some bikes at dept. stores are okay. They have have been assembled poorly, but parts-wise, they pass muster. But that's not true with the super-low end stuff that you find for $70 CDN on clearance at the Zellers during their semi-annual sale.

I just examined the possibility of building a bike with Acera/Altus derailleurs with Falcon friction shifters.

frame: Leader 510 H $70
https://www.blueskycycling.com/produc...-MTB-Frame.htm
fork: RockShox Dart 2 $136
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=13006
handlebarsimension riser bar $11
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=702949
stem: Dimension 110mm $20
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=420892
grips: Sunlite blue $4
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=509356
headset: Crane Creek zero stack (not sure) $36
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=718035
headset spacers: Origin 8 $6
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=11166
seatpost: Origin 8 $12
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=431919
seatpost clamp: Origin 8 $6
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=431895
saddle: Avenir 200 hybrid series $27
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=507478
crankset: Shimano Alivio M410 Octalink chainguard $40
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=20838
bottom bracket:
front derailleur: Shimano Altus dual pull bottom swing $11
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=434748
rear derailleur: Shimano Acera M360 $19
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=414550
brake levers: Shimano Acera $16
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=438669
brakes: Shimano Acera $21
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=20836
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=438412
shifters: Falcon friction $9
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=418214
cassette: Sram PG830 $19
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=19636
chain: KMC $15
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=2443
pedals:
wheels: Sun Rhyno Lite Deore 36 hole $125
https://www.bicyclewheels.com/merchan...gory_Code=MBRB
tires: Michelin Tracker 26x1.95 reflective (two) $50
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=712205
tubes:
wheel reflectors:
spoke protector:
tubes, wheel reflectors, spoke protector, bottom bracket (and not counting pedals) estimate: $36
Total without shipping: $689
This of course is with Acera brakes and levers while I'd prefer Deore brakes and levers.

This list was not quite completed. And, in Canada, the shipping cost and duty for parts shipped seperately like the frame, wheels and other parts would likely be pretty high. Even if I estimated $60 (probably at least double that), I'd be up to $750. Then the cost of having some parts installed might total $50. So, you're looking at $800 right there. With realistic shipping/duty cost I'd be looking at $850. EDIT: And with Deore brakes and levers probably closer to $900.

Now, the Haro Flightline Two has Altus front and rear derailleurs and an 8 speed drivetrain. So, it might be a good candidate to change to Falcon friction shifters. However, it has an MSRP of $470. And on sale at the end of the season of course it would be cheaper. So spending money to modify that one would seem more worth it. So I guess the only reason to build to save money would be if you want to go with Deore LX or even XT so you could save compared to a complete build. The Trek 520 is $1700 in Canada so I know you could build for less than that even if you choose an aluminium frame.

So, I guess the idea of "polishing a turd" seems a lot more appealing now. I kind of felt like repairing/adjusting my two bikes right now and sell them and get a medium priced one I could modify to make it my own and use it also as a winter bike. So when I complete my touring bike, I'd have one bike with 700c wheels and one with 26 inch wheels to really "rock and roll".

^^
You realize that buying components individually and piecemeal is the MOST expensive way to assemble any bike, even a "cheap" one?

Not to mention the idea of spec'ing a $136 fork, $125 wheels, $36 headset, and $50/set tires for a $70 frame doesn't make much sense to me. You could save ~$200 between those four items with minimal effort.

If I chose an aluminium frame instead of a steel frame, I bet you I could go several hundred dollars under $1700 they're asking for the Trek 520 in Canada. I mean Nashbar touring frameset, Handspun Deore LX wheels with Velocity Dyad rims. And I could save a bit more even if I went with a Deore M590 trekking groupset at bike24.

They'll tell you to spend $550 on a fork in the mountain bike forum. That's about $60 for each wheel. The tires have more puncture resistance than regular cheap tires. And the $70 frame is greatly reduced. Yeah, I suppose you could get closer to the cost of a retail bike, but then you'd get some of the same cheapness that came with the retail bike.

I don't know. I guess I'm running around in circles here losing my trail of thought. haha

The LBS closest to my house has a sign on the door that says, "We don't work on department store bikes. If the place where you bought your bike doesn't have a repair shop, then we don't want to attempt to fix it either."

So they only fix bikes you bought there? Good thing I never tried to take my Mongoose bike (which was bought at an lbs before it became an x-mart brand) there to be fixed.

No. You have to read the spirit of the entire message, not the letter of the 2nd line of the message. The key is the first sentence where it says, "department store bikes."

By reading only the second line of the sign out of context, a Cervelo bought used from a private seller would also be excluded. Most people reading the entire sign would understand what they're trying to say.

We don't have any such signs in our shop. We politely tell the person we no longer work on dept. store bikes, and we give them the phone number and location of a newer shop owned by a guy that used to work with us, if they want it. Most of the time, they appreciate the info, and for the time being at least, our friend who owns the other shop is happy to get the business. As he becomes more established, he may decide he's busy enough with service work to install a similar policy as ours, I don't know.

Bottom line, there's no need to be rude or to post smart-ass signs IMO. You can deliver a message without offending people. Offend enough people and it's likely to hurt your business eventually.

One thing needs to be said. We're throwing out the term "Wal-Mart bike" as if it's written in stone that each and every bike sold as Wal-mart is junk. I have to wonder how many of us have actually taken a recent look at all the bikes at Wal-mart. They have many Schwinn hybrid and comfort bikes that are perfectly acceptable for casual cyclists and can be repaired and adjusted for a reasonable cost. True, many of these bikes are inherently bad, but more often than not, a few basic adjustments make a world of difference. A ten-year-old Huffy that's been keeping the lawn sprinkler company in the back yard is another story.

I've worked at several bike shops and now I'm the head mechanic at a Dick's Sporting Goods. Rather than putting up some "No Huffys Allowed" sign on the door that will give customers a reason to turn around and walk away, I give them a chance to come in and talk with me. I'll take the time to examine each case individually and explain what can and can't be done. Now the customer gets the idea that I give a ***** about them on a one-on-one basis. When a customer is used to getting blown off by LBS elites, and then starts talking to someone who they truly believe cares, their minds open up and so do their wallets.
A good mechanic can assess whether a few basic adjustments will get the bike working acceptably. When I do good work on the bike, the parents develop confidence in me. The parent's start thinking about getting a bike for themselves, and more often than not, they'll buy one from me.
If I see the bike is not worth the work, I explain all the reasons to the customer. I don't just say, "It's cheap. Get it out of here." Most times, the customer will ask if I have anything for sale that doesn't cost $400. Fortunately, working at Dick's Sporting Goods, I have plenty of options for under $300. Sometimes they buy, sometimes they don't. But I put myself in the best position to have them return and buy a bike from me, either for themselves or for their kids, all because I took the time to make a good impression.
My point is that when many bike shop people encounter a customer with a department store bike, they make the customer feel like they are directly associated with the bike, both a junk, unwelcome. In my experience, this attitude doesn't stop there. Even within the bikes the lbs sells, if you buy their lowest price bike, you are the lowest customer and receive service accordingly.
I have a couple LBS nearby, and I directly benefit from this on a weekly basis.

What are you people saying? Why do some shops refuse to work on department store bikes? Is it because department store bicycles are too difficult to work on? Or is it because you don't want to support the stores that sell them?

It's like this: today a guy brought in a Roadmaster that had obviously spent some time in the rain. It needed a chain, brake pads, a new rear derailleur, and a wheel true. The estimate was close to $100. "But I can get a new one for that!", he said. And it's true. He can go to Walmart and buy a new, barely functional, poorly assembled POS for the same money.

But guys like him don't understand value, they only understand cost. They are two different things. So he left probably thinking I was the bad guy because I can't work for $2/hr so he can maintain his cheap bike habit.

And the quality has taken a turn for the worse lately. I am close to turning them away entirely. I can't work for free, but these bikes won't stay adjusted, so people just feel ripped off. Not by Walmart or whoever for foisting such a junker on them, but by me, because they paid a "professional" but it still doesn't work. That's not in my shop's best interests!

To vredstein: you said

While true, they are universally poorly assembled and come in one size. They don't even double check the bike for safety or so much as air the tires before they go out the door. No help on how to shift, either. It cost pennies a day more to go to a shop and buy an entry level hybrid that is better assembled, better fitted, and better backed than such a bike.

You don't understrand, or won't understand, what we are saying.

They are not "too difficult" to work on. As built, they are IMPOSSIBLE to make work properly, no matter how much time you spend. The only adequate solution is to replace the junk parts with good components and the owners neither understand nor are willing to pay for that.

Just another thought. Not all Pro Bike Shops know what their doing either. Several years ago a retired school teacher wanted to run a small business in his retirement. The only existing small businesses that were for sale at that time were a music store and a Bicycle Shop. Since he couldn't play any musical instruments and he knew how to ride a bike, that was how he chose. One of the first bikes that he sold was high end and he didn't know that the tires needed to be glued on and unfortunatly neither did the customer.

Because they are not cost-effective to work on. At shop labor rates, the time a mechanic spends working on the more problematic bikes equates to more money than the bike is worth. And the mechanic won't know for sure until they've put time into it. Customers aren't happy when you charge them $40 just to tell them you've determined their bike won't work properly without another $40 or $50 in replacement parts. So rather than take the risk of an assessment, many shops find it easier to have an all-encompassing "No department store bikes" policy. For a shop that is handcuffed to labor rates, it makes business sense.

The problem I have is that there's no need for a set, all-encompassing policy, refusing to even look at the bike with the customer present. Why not just assess the bike on an individual basis, then explain to the customer how a similar department store bike, even when new, will present similar problems. You already have them in the shop with an example of a bad bike, so why not take the opportunity to show them the direct contrast to what you have to offer?
Have the customer wiggle the derailleur on the bad bike to show him how sloppy the pivots are, then have him do the same on a quality bike. Have him squeeze the plastic brake lever as it activates the stamped-steel brake arms on the cheap bike, then have him do the same with metal levers and aluminum brake arms on the better quality. Have him hold his steel-rimmed wheel in one hand while holding a similar aluminum-rimmed wheel in the other. Now the customer has felt the difference with his own hands and starts to understand the benefit of buying a better bike from a better source, rather than going away feeling like they've been turned away from the country club for wearing work boots. This is the customer who will come back to the shop for tubes, buy his first cycling clothing at the shop, and recommend the shop to friends.

I have no problem with differing policies and opinions among shops.

Some bike shops seem to be populated by snobs. From what I read in bike forums, some wont even fix a flat on a recumbent or a trike.

As far as upgrading "walmart" bikes, why not. Some that I have seen have some really trick suspensions. Derailers that cant be serviced should probably be the first to go, followed by the brakes. Of course the bike will be heavy, but probably quite reliable. Riding a $5000 bike to work, and having to park it outside doesnt make much sense either.

.............

The bike will be heavy, and will still probably not be reliable. There is quite a bit of middle ground between a $5000 bike and a $79 __mart BSO. You're only operating on extremes. You can get an affordable and reliable townie at your LBS that will, over a couple of years, end up costing you less than that BSO.

Ha! Have you actually ridden these? I have, and a fully rigid bike-shop MTB is far superior to their junk suspension. Some of those bikes weigh over 40lbs.

By the time you get done upgrading the crap that doesn't work on a BSO, it will have cost you more than a lower-end bike shop bike. And you'll still have an incredibly heavy BSO that isn't fun to ride.

I don't think anything about that situation qualifies him as a "Pro Bike Shop" any more than me brushing my teeth everyday qualifies me as a dentist....

LBS, here, they do a quick triage, and itemize what the repair will cost,

and it quickly exceeds the cost of getting another of the same, new

and starting the downward slump again.. YGWYPF

Wally World doesn't have a repair department , they just push the stuff out the door .