How to research a mysterious frame?
 

Greetings;

I have a road bike frame and fork that have been painted over, and I have no idea what they are. I can read the serial # off of the bottom bracket, and that's about it. Does anyone know of a website where I can run a search on the serial #, even though I don't know the brand?

Thanks,

Sprayman

Can you determine the material of manufacture? A magnet will make it obvious if it's steel.

The folks in http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdispl...ic-amp-Vintage love this sort of game. Post pics there of the frame including close ups of things like the lugs (if present), fork crown, bb shell and derailleur hanger. Odds are somebody there could ID the make off the serial #, too.

Yes, it's steel for sure. Something interesting, too.....I just found a Campagnolo stamp on the very tip of the forks. Hmmmm....

Where the wheel clamps? Campy (along with Shimano and Suntour and others) made fork ends and drop outs for frame makers. It will help narrow it down, though.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6159/...aa54b01e2a.jpg

As Canam said, post pictures on the vintage forum. The places that are usually most characteristic of various builders are seat lug area, including seat stays, top and down tube lugs, fork crown, stay/dropout joints, Right chainstay showing crimp or clearance for cranks, any braze-ons, and the location and format of serial number.

However, if your frame doesn't have any unique features in those areas, the most you might get is something like "generic Italian frame form the seventies"

Sounds like it is something very nice and worth looking into. Take a lot of photos and post them in the vintage forum. You will probably get a ton of responses offering to take it off your hands. :D

I'll do that. The more paint I strip off of it the more interesting features are revealed. My plan was to convert it to a fixie but if it's something worth restoring, I might do that instead.

Yep, the stamp looks a lot like that one, and it is on the wheel clamps.

Thanks for the reply.

Sprayman

The correct term for those is "dropouts". Can you determine the type of bottom bracket threading? The most common are English and Italian. Measure the width of the frames's bottom bracket shell. If it's 68 mm it's probably English threaded and if it's 70 mm it probably Italian. A bike shop could tell you for sure. All of these details will help with the ID or at least indicate a country of origin and time period.

Stick a finger in the tubes and feel for "rifling". That'll identify SLX/SPX and TSX. Which also indentifies Columbus. There were manufacturers who were religious about tubing choices - all Reynolds, all Columbus, etc. It's one avenue of elimination in addition to:

1. BB shell width and threads, cutouts and stamps.
2. Lugs
3. Serial numbers.

Don't rely too much on dropouts - as that's one area where even the most religious of manufacturers were willing to cross a "border".

Even lugs are borderline in that regard.

=8-)

You have to post a picture of it or nobody will be able to give you even an idea, hard to tell w/o looking right?

Right! I was waiting until I finished stripping the frame. So, here it is.

I'm hoping someone will recognize it. It's a pretty nice frame.

Thanks,

Sprayman

Need a shot of the BOTTOM of that bottom bracket shell...

=8-)

Is that top tube bent?

looks like it.

I don't see how folks can say that the top tube is bent based on the photo, but maybe they're eyes are much sharper than mine. If they're saying it's bent because of how it meets the lugs, you can disregard that because it was fairly common practice to cheat a bit using lugs whose angles didn't match perfectly.

In any case I suspect that the fork isn't original to the bike for a number of reasons. First the frame has fender eyes while the fork doesn't, and It would be unlikely for a builder to mismatch it that way. Also the fork and frame use different brand dropouts, and lastly the tube finish at the dropout is different in the fork vs. the rear triangle.

Question, before you removed the paint, was there a tube decal ie, Renolds or Columbus anywhere. If not, look closely at the ends of all the tubes for stamp marks, however faint. Either an oval for Columbus or the word Reynolds, or any other branding. Almost all premium tube sets have the brand imprinted on the tube, and this should still be visible.

The only thing sure in that bike IMO is that was built between mid 70s and mid 80s. If it wasnt because has campangolo dropouts (not idea in the back tho) I would dare to say that is japanese.


Looking better to the pictures now...
Hmmm fork not original and the rear dropout has an inscription... looks like says shimano?? Insist, the frame looks japanese 80's frame

Could be that the builder use a pre-manufactured fork. When did those become commonly availible? (Although Campy dropouts on a pre-manufactured fork is somewhat interesting.)

At this point we'd probably learn the most by knowing the width and threading of the BB. And it there is any fancy lugwork there.

During the period this was probably built, most builders built their own forks. But even if it was bought fork, the builder would have matched it to the frame at least to the point of having fender eyes or not.

The rear dropout may possibly say "Huret" It definitely isn't Campy or Shimano, but the stop seems to match what Campy used. As for dating it by the dropouts, that won't work because Campy used the same dropout on forks for many decades, and the rear isn't useful until it's identified for sure.

Knowing the BB thread would be a big help, since this seems to be of an era where Italian, French and British (and the rest of the works) all had different BB threads. It seems to predate the ISO standardization to the British thread, so that might at least pin down the country of origin somewhat.

Serial numbers are usually worthless, unless you know the brand first. Even then, many serial numbers have limited value.

Steering tubes are often marked, with a brand of tubing and a date code. Won't tell you the maker of the bike, but it is a start. Seat post size is also a clue.

First picture appears to show some deflection on the top tube, but I am not sure. In person, with a straight edge is the best bet.

Here it is, bottom and side views. The bottom bracket is 70 mm wide, if that helps.

Thanks

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=228567http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=228566
Here it is, bottom and side views.

I haven't pulled apart the BB yet, so I can't tell you about the threading, but the width is 70mm.

Sprayman

What is the rear hub spacing?

I'm happy to answer that if you could tell me where to measure. Do I just measure between the rear dropouts?

Thanks