Fork on backwards...
#1
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From: England, currently dividing my time between university in Guildford and home just outside Reading
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Fork on backwards...
The other day, while locking my bike up, I realised the bike locked to the other side of the rack had the fork on backwards! It was what I'd describe as a BSO, but it had clearly been ridden there. Just how dangerous would it be to ride a bike like that? And how the heck does that get past inspection?
#3
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From: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 8
opposite..
In a video demonstration, MIT Professor, Author of bicycle science,
set a handle bar less
bicycle in motion down a hill, it went dead straight, with no one on it.
because the trail was large.. it more stable, but harder to change direction.
so great if no hands butt steering is the plan..
teacup and saucer in hands while on the way.
in the carton the fork is backwards,.. BSO are assembled by min. wage clerks
in the big box stores, not skilled bike mechanics..
In a video demonstration, MIT Professor, Author of bicycle science,
set a handle bar less
bicycle in motion down a hill, it went dead straight, with no one on it.
because the trail was large.. it more stable, but harder to change direction.
so great if no hands butt steering is the plan..
teacup and saucer in hands while on the way.
in the carton the fork is backwards,.. BSO are assembled by min. wage clerks
in the big box stores, not skilled bike mechanics..
#4
Si Senior
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Naperville, Illinois
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Of the three bikes currently being built up in my workshop, none of them would allow a backwards fork. The front wheel would be impeded by the downtube. Must have been a MTB.
#5
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From: Spokane, WA
Bikes: Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520
Think of casters. Casters trail behind and are much more stable when trailing behind the pivot point. Turn the casters so they are facing forward (leading) on a shopping cart and then push the cart, the cart wants to shift around while the casters try to twist so they are trailing as you initially push the cart.
Cars are the same way. If you adjust the caster angle on a cart so that you have positive caster, you will make the car feel more twitchy and responsive however it won't track as straight easily and when you let go of the steering wheel while making a turn, it won't return back to center. You adjust the caster so you have negative caster, the car won't be as responsive or twitchy when you are steering but it will feel much more stable. You will be able to let go of your steering wheel and the car should tract straight for a while.
So yeah, a backwards fork will make the bike feel much more stable but when you turn the handlebars, it won't respond as quickly as a normal positive angle fork.
Cars are the same way. If you adjust the caster angle on a cart so that you have positive caster, you will make the car feel more twitchy and responsive however it won't track as straight easily and when you let go of the steering wheel while making a turn, it won't return back to center. You adjust the caster so you have negative caster, the car won't be as responsive or twitchy when you are steering but it will feel much more stable. You will be able to let go of your steering wheel and the car should tract straight for a while.
So yeah, a backwards fork will make the bike feel much more stable but when you turn the handlebars, it won't respond as quickly as a normal positive angle fork.
#6
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From: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Guess you've never shopped at Tesco when they have bikes in. Pretty common to see incorrectly assembled bikes, and the people who buy them don't seem to mind / care about it.
See here for a photo of one on an instore display https://singletrackworld.com/forum/to...cing-wrong-way
See here for a photo of one on an instore display https://singletrackworld.com/forum/to...cing-wrong-way
#7
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From: England, currently dividing my time between university in Guildford and home just outside Reading
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See here for a photo of one on an instore display https://singletrackworld.com/forum/to...cing-wrong-way
#10
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Bikes: 2003 Lemond Zurich; 1987 Schwinn Tempo; 1968 PX10; 1978 PX10LE, Peugeot Course; A-D Vent Noir
#11
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From: Bay Area, Calif.
On my first trip with my folding Bike Friday I was a bit rushed and accidentally assembled it with the fork reversed. Handling was fine but a little bit too stable. But when I had to brake hard in traffic I felt the rear wheel lift much more easily than usual. Fortunately it didn't cause me to fall and at that point I checked over the bike and discovered my assembly error.
#14
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Are they? I think not. Bike forks have rake, or offset. Never seen that discussed for cars.
No. A backwards fork will make the bike less stable.
Look at a bike with a standard oriented fork. Notice the exact height of, say the top tube/head tube junction when the wheel is pointing straight forward.
Now turn the bar, as in a sharp turn. You'll notice your chosen reference point rising a little. Let it back into a straight forward position, see how the reference point drops again.
Gravity alone will make the bike strive to continue straight forward. This is (part of) what allows us to ride no handed.
If you flip the fork around, the reference point will be at its highest point with the wheel straight forward. Turning the wheel will lower the front of the bike. A flipped fork bike will be (near) impossible to ride no handed.
But hands-on riding isn't really much affected, as long as there's no toe strike or down tube strike.
#15
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From: Bay Area, Calif.
Nope, my Bike Friday (mentioned above) is the only bike I have where the fork can be reversed without striking the down tube. It is much easier to ride straight no-handed with the fork reversed - but harder to turn.
#16
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From: Oklahoma
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With bicycles the term "rake" is somewhat misused. With motorcycles and most other vehicles rake is the angle of the axis of rotation expressed in degrees. This is equivalent to what we call HTA, head tube angle. What we call rake is actually the offset that the wheel axle has to the axis of fork rotation. On a bicycle increasing rake offset reduces steering trail, causing the bike to change directions more quickly. Reducing rake offset increases steering trail, causing the bike to feel more stable (at least at most riding speeds).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle...cycle_geometry
#18
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From: UK
This is quite common with cheap department store bikes unfortunately. A friend was sold one by Halfords in the UK with a backwards fork and I see them in the street fairly often (their Apollo Transfer brand). He didn't want me to correct it for him as he trusted the shop over me, but we convinced him eventually. He said a homeless man heckled him pointing out how dangerous it is.
#19
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But a shopping cart caster pivots around a vertical axle. If you lean a caster wheel until its pivot axle has the approximate angle of a bike head tube, the wheel will happily stay on the forward side, just like on a bike.
Are they? I think not. Bike forks have rake, or offset. Never seen that discussed for cars.
No. A backwards fork will make the bike less stable.
Look at a bike with a standard oriented fork. Notice the exact height of, say the top tube/head tube junction when the wheel is pointing straight forward.
Now turn the bar, as in a sharp turn. You'll notice your chosen reference point rising a little. Let it back into a straight forward position, see how the reference point drops again.
Gravity alone will make the bike strive to continue straight forward. This is (part of) what allows us to ride no handed.
If you flip the fork around, the reference point will be at its highest point with the wheel straight forward. Turning the wheel will lower the front of the bike. A flipped fork bike will be (near) impossible to ride no handed.
But hands-on riding isn't really much affected, as long as there's no toe strike or down tube strike.
Are they? I think not. Bike forks have rake, or offset. Never seen that discussed for cars.
No. A backwards fork will make the bike less stable.
Look at a bike with a standard oriented fork. Notice the exact height of, say the top tube/head tube junction when the wheel is pointing straight forward.
Now turn the bar, as in a sharp turn. You'll notice your chosen reference point rising a little. Let it back into a straight forward position, see how the reference point drops again.
Gravity alone will make the bike strive to continue straight forward. This is (part of) what allows us to ride no handed.
If you flip the fork around, the reference point will be at its highest point with the wheel straight forward. Turning the wheel will lower the front of the bike. A flipped fork bike will be (near) impossible to ride no handed.
But hands-on riding isn't really much affected, as long as there's no toe strike or down tube strike.
This is not accurate. Yes the front end of the bike will go up a bit, but the change in head angle is very small. Flipping the fork around does increase 'trail' massively, though, which then requires much more rider input to steer.
'Trail' is calculated using the cosine of the head angle, so the change in the trail measurement is only a fraction of the height or angle measurement. The rake, however, is added or subtracted directly to get a trail value. A 43 mm rake fork turned backwards becomes a -43 mm rake fork, so trail in this scenario would be increased by 86mm.
There may be some geometry where the slackened head angle overpowers the increased trail, but not on most 'normal' bikes.
#22
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From: Boulder County, CO
Bikes: '80 Masi Gran Criterium, '12 Trek Madone, early '60s Frejus track
Yep. The small front wheel drops the front end, steepening the head angle, which restores trail to a reasonable range.
The offset on the forks of these department store bikes is so slight it probably doesn't make much difference which way they go.
The offset on the forks of these department store bikes is so slight it probably doesn't make much difference which way they go.
Last edited by oldbobcat; 08-18-21 at 11:18 AM.
#24
Zip tie Karen
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
I've seen half a dozen wrong-forked assemblies in the last decade. Recently, I had a neighbor bring me a child's bike that had been assembled backward by her husband. Her neighbor brought me a dept. store MTB with a reversed fork. It's not that unusual, I guess.
Bonus points to Pacific for requiring the assembly stickers to prevent workers from doing this. Note the "Front" sticker on the fork crown in the photo, taken from an Amazon-level MTB recently donated for me to reconfigure for a local underprivileged boy to ride.
Bonus points to Pacific for requiring the assembly stickers to prevent workers from doing this. Note the "Front" sticker on the fork crown in the photo, taken from an Amazon-level MTB recently donated for me to reconfigure for a local underprivileged boy to ride.











