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Two (simple) questions about spokes; phil wood spokes?

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Two (simple) questions about spokes; phil wood spokes?

Old 06-03-12, 12:32 PM
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BlackPowder
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Two (simple) questions about spokes; phil wood spokes?

Hey everyone,

Okay these are a couple things that came up while I was browsing for components for my next build;


First, this may also be a language problem (mother language german), but what is the difference between straight gauge and straight pull spokes?


Second, how do you determine the length of the spokes needed to lace hub x to rim y? ( in my case x = phil wood ISO track hub, y = H plus Son Eero)


And finally, I just saw that Phil Wood also makes spokes. Are they comparable to top notch spokes like DT Swiss, Wheelsmith, Sapim; quality wise?


Thanks a lot for all answer and have a great day,

BlackPowder
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Old 06-03-12, 12:42 PM
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That's three, which shouldn't I answer?

Taking them one at a time.

1- Straight gauge, aka plain gauge, spokes are those with a single wire diameter throughout the length, as opposed to butted, aka swaged, spokes who's ends (one or both), are reinforced for strength, or whose centers are of a thinner gauge than the ends (same thing).

Straight pull spokes are those without elbows, consisting of a straight wire with the spoke head at on end. Straight pull spokes require hubs made for them with the spoke holes drilled radially. They are also used when the head is in the rim and the nipple at the hub. The advantage of straight pull, is that steels have only 80% of the strength in sheer (across the wire) as in tension (along the wire) so the elbow costs roughly 20% of the spokes strength.

2- Calculating spoke length is usually done with a calculator program (many on line including this one), which require you to input rim and hub dimensional & build spec. data, and give you a length.

3- I don't know about Phil spokes either way, but the company has a good reputation for quality, so I'd expect the spokes to be comparable to the other quality brands.

Last edited by FBinNY; 06-03-12 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 06-03-12, 12:54 PM
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https://www.mrrabbit.net/wheelsbyflemingapplications.php

Spreadsheet...Phil Track high and flange and low flange are covered - old and new.

H+Son EERO in there as well..

Most Phil Wood spokes are Sapim's....

It's possible one batch of straight guage were someone else. (I use these for rim rods because the elbows are a perfect 90 degrees instead of 95 degrees used on most spokes...)

They are perfectly fine spokes. Phil Wood chooses to use a semi-polish finish - like DT - which is what I prefer.

Keep in mind that H+Son deep aero section rims while having great finish quality, are all over the place in terms of the ability to have the rim true AND with consistent spoke tension all around. Velocity B43's are more consistent.

=8-)
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Old 06-03-12, 02:40 PM
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Phil makes the thread rolling machine, they buy the spoke wire headed and bent..

In bulk..
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Old 06-03-12, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Phil makes the thread rolling machine, they buy the spoke wire headed and bent..

In bulk..
anyone know who they buy it from; sapim?
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Old 06-04-12, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackPowder View Post
anyone know who they buy it from; sapim?
Scroll up.

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Old 06-04-12, 12:13 AM
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So the only US manufacturer of bicycle spokes is Wheelsmith?
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Old 06-04-12, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by krome View Post
So the only US manufacturer of bicycle spokes is Wheelsmith?
I guess, assuming they use US manufactured wire.

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2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
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4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Old 06-04-12, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by krome View Post
So the only US manufacturer of bicycle spokes is Wheelsmith?
I thought they got their spokes from Asahi, but that may have changed since I last checked.

Update: I guess it has changed --

"All of Wheelsmith’s machinery, including spoke manufacturing and wheelbuilding machines, was brought over from the Montana facility. At the same time, the remainder of Asahi’s machinery was purchased and transported from Japan to Milwaukee. As a result, every Wheelsmith spoke is now made in the US."

https://www.wheelsmith.com/aboutwheelsmith.html
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Old 06-04-12, 09:50 AM
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https://www.mrrabbit.net/docs/spokeheads/main.html

See Wheelsmith entry...

=8-)
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Disclaimer:

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2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
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4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Old 06-05-12, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackPowder View Post
anyone know who they buy it from; sapim?
https://www.retro-gression.com/catego...ms-hubs-spokes

BTW I was just in the market for deep v rims. I was looking at the B34 and the H + son rims but I went with Eigthinch Julians. Partly because I wanted 48 h and also I will beat the crap out of them and the price is right. The general opinion on them is that they are B34 copys, I gave it a good look over when I got it and it looks like good quality to me..
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Old 06-05-12, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Binxsy View Post
https://www.retro-gression.com/catego...ms-hubs-spokes

BTW I was just in the market for deep v rims. I was looking at the B34 and the H + son rims but I went with Eigthinch Julians. Partly because I wanted 48 h and also I will beat the crap out of them and the price is right. The general opinion on them is that they are B34 copys, I gave it a good look over when I got it and it looks like good quality to me..
With the deep section rims, looks won't tell you a thing about their quality...

...unless you run the rim through a dial caliper checking the extrusion consistency BEFOREHAND

or

actually build the the wheel to determine if you can achieve a true wheel AND a wheel with relatively consistent tension all around.

B43's and DeepV's so far have a history for good extrusion quality. Same for KinLin XR-300 and XR-380.

=8-)
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5000+ wheels built since 1984...

Disclaimer:

1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Old 06-05-12, 09:55 AM
  #13  
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And there is die wear as well, you cannot make an infinite amount of stuff
out of the same extrusion die..
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