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New front wheel and want to change the hub

Old 06-22-12, 12:44 PM
  #1  
Jamesw2
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New front wheel and want to change the hub

I bought a new front wheel Mavic 317 rim Tiagra 36 hole hub. The hub has a 38 mm bolt hole circle
Here is some technical data https://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...d,hb_road.html

https://www.shimano.com/media/techdoc...9830729647.pdf

https://www.jbimporters.com/web/check...t_number=73756

I would like to upgrade that and use the same spokes since it is a new wheel

Correct me if i am wrong in thinking . I need any 36 spoke hole hub with a 38 mm diameter hub that will take DT-2.0 SS spokes.

Is there a chart that will show what spoke lengths are needed for wheels?



On that bike I have a Mavic 719 rear wheel with a Deore XT hub
As another note the rear rim says it will go to a 37 mm tire and the new front says it can use a 50 mm tire.
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Old 06-22-12, 02:06 PM
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For a direct replacement you need a hub with the same spoke-hole-circle diameter and the same centre-to-flange distance for both sides. Since it is a road hub, it is likely symmetrical any other symmetrical (non-disk) hub with the same flange width and hole circle should work.

Can I ask why? What are you hoping to gain by doing this? Is the Tiagra hub damaged somehow? I can think of few ways to change your bike that will make less of a difference than removing a new Tiagra hub.
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Old 06-22-12, 02:10 PM
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Jamesw2- As long as the replacement hub has close to the same flange diameter and flange to center of axle lengths the spokes should be reuseable. It's when dimensions are at oppisite ends of the acceptible ranges that things get touchy.

Most people use spoke length calculators these days. They're way too many possible combos to maintain a single list.


Tire width and fit on a rim is a shade of grey. I never suggest a tire that's as narrow as the rim or more then a few times the rim's width. Andy.
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Old 06-22-12, 02:22 PM
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Can't imagine what you could gain, but have at it. As usual, Sheldon's site has the answers: https://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/spocalc.htm
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Old 06-22-12, 02:31 PM
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A few added thoughts. if the wheel was built 36h 4 cross, the spokes are full tangent, and there's just about no change in spoke length with changes in flange diameter. There are a number of spoke calculators on line. I use spokecalc but others are equally good. I use the express version because I prefer to measure my own rather than rely of outside sources.

One thing to keep in mind. Different programs will come up with different answers for the same data set. None are right or wrong, but handle different subtleties like height of spoke in the nipple slightly differently, so whatever calculator you use, stay with it. If it seems to give you spoke lengths running short, it'll be consistent that way, and you can compensate in rounding up or down or adding (ie.)1mm to every answer.

Question--
Why would you want to rehub a new wheel. There's not much functional difference between hubs, so why destroy a perfectly good wheel over it?
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Old 06-22-12, 02:32 PM
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Either buy the wheel with the parts you want, or build it from scratch. Buying a wheel to replace the hub is just crazy.
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Old 06-22-12, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DCB0 View Post
Can I ask why? What are you hoping to gain by doing this? Is the Tiagra hub damaged somehow? I can think of few ways to change your bike that will make less of a difference than removing a new Tiagra hub.
I ordered this not knowing how to read the hub type/brand from the description. Also it is not a sealed bearing at least not well sealed I have since looked at Shimano hubs and i now have an idea of the different series of quality . . . I was under the impression that Tiagra was of poor quality but looking at it now it would be easily serviceable

Thanks for the reply
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Old 06-22-12, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamesw2 View Post
I ordered this not knowing how to read the hub type/brand from the description. Also it is not a sealed bearing at least not well sealed I have since looked at Shimano hubs and i now have an idea of the different series of quality . . . I was under the impression that Tiagra was of poor quality but looking at it now it would be easily serviceable

Thanks for the reply
Even if we accept the premise that it's a crappy hub, that's not a reason to replace it. The worst that can happen is that it'll wear out and need replacing, but why cross that bridge before you get to it.
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Old 06-22-12, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Question--
Why would you want to rehub a new wheel. There's not much functional difference between hubs, so why destroy a perfectly good wheel over it?
I ordered this not knowing how to read the hub type/brand from the description. Also it is not a sealed bearing at least not well sealed I have since looked at Shimano hubs and i now have an idea of the different series of quality . . . I was under the impression that Tiagra was of poor quality but looking at it now it would be easily serviceable

You can quote me on this "There is always something wrong with perfectly good new things" or i was very bored

Thanks for the reply
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Old 06-22-12, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
Either buy the wheel with the parts you want, or build it from scratch. Buying a wheel to replace the hub is just crazy.
I agree after these replies . . for $175.00 i could get a new wheel. This was about $100. A better hub would be $40.00 and you would never get it to true at least i wouldn't be able to.
Thanks for talking me out of it
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Old 06-22-12, 05:10 PM
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https://www.mrrabbit.net/wheelsbyflemingapplications.php

Calculation spreadsheet available if OP is still going forward with this...

=8-)
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Old 06-22-12, 05:14 PM
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The only thing that the seals on bike bearings are designed to keep out is dust. https://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830729647.pdf
With the seal and shield it will do a decent job of keeping the bearing clean.
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Old 06-22-12, 05:17 PM
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It's a front wheel. Any front hub with a diameter of 38mm +/- 1 or 2 will work with no issues.
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Old 06-25-12, 08:22 AM
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A front hub, being one of the simplest components (with moving parts) of a bike, is really hard to get wrong. The only thing really wrong with even the worst front hubs is poor bearing adjustment. Hubshells made from separate bits of steel are pretty awful, but even that degree of crapulence is likely to be inconsequential on the front.

And there will be absolutely zero perceptible performance difference between the crappiest and the best front hubs if properly maintained, beyond maybe 200g max, and that's in the middle of the wheel, where it counts little more than static weight.
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Old 07-02-12, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
And there will be absolutely zero perceptible performance difference between the crappiest and the best front hubs if properly maintained, beyond maybe 200g max, and that's in the middle of the wheel, where it counts little more than static weight.
That is interesting. I need to adjust my perception about (perceived) quality and performance. The technical document says that it has 3/16 ball bearings leading me to believe that it would handle a curb jump if required
Thanks
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Old 07-02-12, 05:25 AM
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When it comes to wheel performance, tyre quality and weight counts for a lot, as does that of the rim. Butted spokes are good for durability, and help performance. Hubs, meh.
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Old 07-04-12, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamesw2 View Post
would never get it to true at least i wouldn't be able to.
If I can build a rear wheel, 24 spokes, super light, on an offset rim and get it true and centered, and also ride it for 3 years with my overweight body, and STILL have it perfectly true, anybody can build a wheel. (It was an Easton Ascent II rebuild. It has lasted longer than the original build at this point.)
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Old 07-04-12, 08:26 AM
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Does the new wheel have a Mavic 319 or Mavic 317 rim? You said 317, but the link to JB importers is for a wheel with 319. I only ask because you said you were concerned about the ability of the hub to handle a curb hop... a Mavic 317 rim might be able to handle a curb hop, but with a 319 you will have to be pretty careful, unless you have a nice big fat tire on it.
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Old 07-04-12, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
If I can build a rear wheel, 24 spokes, super light, on an offset rim and get it true and centered, and also ride it for 3 years with my overweight body, and STILL have it perfectly true, anybody can build a wheel. (It was an Easton Ascent II rebuild. It has lasted longer than the original build at this point.)
Did you use a tensiometer?
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Old 07-05-12, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Did you use a tensiometer?
Nope. I did it by sound. I didn't have a truing stand either, I just used my frame. I rigged up a dishing tool so I could be sure it was centered.
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Old 07-05-12, 08:48 AM
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Nice.

Good ear.
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Old 07-05-12, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamesw2 View Post
That is interesting. I need to adjust my perception about (perceived) quality and performance. The technical document says that it has 3/16 ball bearings leading me to believe that it would handle a curb jump if required
Thanks
Tiagra front hub is up to kerb hopping no issues. I've used much, much lower-end hubs for decades on end and they hold up fine to all the abuses you can dish out. Only difference really is frequency of maintenance. Nicer hubs have harder cones and races which are more concentric and lasts longer between adjustments. So once per year for *mart no-name steel hubs versus once very 5-years nicer Shimano hubs. Not really worth the effort of rebuilding a wheel or even buying another one to replace the Tiagra to improve the service-interval from 2 to 5-years.

Personally I really like sealed cartridge bearing hubs. Cartridge bearings are made in much larger volumes and have much more precise machining tolerances than cone & cup bearings. I have a set of Mavic 500/501 hubs from 1985 that have gone through over 18k-miles of racing (many in rain and snow). I have never overhauled them and the bearings are still as smooth as the day I bought them. I also have an ActionTec titanium bottom-bracket with cartridge bearings. The original bearings that same with them weren't the highest-end units, but that BB still went for 5-years straight with no servicing needed. Rather than pry off the seals to re-pack the grease, I just replaced the bearings with high-precision SKF units and they haven't needed any servicing in 20-years and 35k-miles.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 07-05-12 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 07-05-12, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamesw2 View Post
That is interesting. I need to adjust my perception about (perceived) quality and performance. The technical document says that it has 3/16 ball bearings leading me to believe that it would handle a curb jump if required
Thanks

Don't worry.....it sounds like you'll probably get a chance to buy a new wheel soon.......
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