kraemouse

Hi, I just bought a 1974 Raleigh Superbe with an internal 3 speed hub (am i saying that right?) - sturmey archer.. And.. I took it into a bike shop today, expecting to need a simple adjustment to the gear cables to fix the issue I'm having where in 1st gear the bike tends to "freewheel" I think it's called? The pedals just go round and round without moving the wheels forward. Anyway, the guy came back and reported some bad news. My hub is broken and he says I need to buy a whole new mechanism. I can ride fine in 2nd and 3rd gear, but 1st won't work (I believe he said the "teeth won't bite down..") Problem is I don't know what I need, or where to look, or who to go to! I called a couple bike shops in my area.. and the fix sounds like it's going to be more than the bike cost ($100-$200 for a hub, $100 for installation) Is that not a little much? If I want to look online, can anyone tell me what kindof hub I should be looking for for this bike? I was so excited to have my first bike in 10 years.... I thought these old three speeds were supposed to be "indestructable"

10 Wheels

The bike is 38 years old.
But you got a good deal on it?

kraemouse

Good deal for my area. Bikes are overpriced here, I live in a big city. I wanted a vintage bike. I can return the bike, but frankly I don't want to.. I love it..

cny-bikeman

Hogwash. The 1st gear drive path inside the hub is the reverse of 3rd gear (ratios 3:4 vs 4:3) so they both use the same gears. The only difference is they use different sets of pawls to drive the internal parts. Therefor if only 1st is not working then the most likely cause is the springs for 1st gear are broken.

If you can locate a shop that has pawl springs and other parts, and a mechanic with a brain, have them overhaul your hub, replace broken/worn parts and you're good to go for a very long time. Not sure what is charged for an SA overhaul, but it's very straightforward. The reason you were quoted so high is that they were assuming an entire hub and a wheel rebuild (though $100 is way high for a wheel build, even with spokes).

Sturmey parts are still available from Harris Cyclery (Sheldon's site.
https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturm...her-parts.html

Want to see how easy the rebuild is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6krXSs-lc
*I would note that you should put some grease in the outer cups on each side, and as with any overhaul it's best to replace ball bearings. Bearing adjustment is the same as with a regular hub.

Really almost anyone with a few basic tools can overhaul one. I've taught it to a 14 year old.

kraemouse

I knew that kid was full of it

Thanks for the info. Greatly appreciated. I am useless mechanically.

Omiak

If fixing the hub fails you could probably find a used wheel with a 3 speed hub for way cheaper than $100 somewhere. Bike co-op, used bike shop, maybe ebay.

cny-bikeman

Glad to help. If you can't find a shop to cooperate, lean on a friend who's worked on bikes before. There's about a 99% chance that a given SA hub can be overhauled successfully. One very important thing, though is what model hub it is. that will be written on the hub. See Sheldon's site for the different models.

rdtompki

Good luck! I rode a Rayleigh "English Racer" 3 speed all through HS until I got hit by a car in 1962. I went everywhere on that thing.

LarDasse74

I wouldn't say he is 'full of it.' He is just not aware that people can and do repair old SA hubs. It will likely cost you as it is time consuming. Unless you find a benevolent old bike dude who has been rebuilding SA hubs for 50 years and just continues doing it to be a good citizen.

Monster Pete

Sturmey Archer AW hubs and their derivatives are very simple to overhaul and repair. Every part is available for them. It sounds like the low gear pawl springs to me- 2nd and 3rd gear transfer torque via a different set of freewheel pawls to 1st gear. I'd open it up and have a look. SJS cycles in the UK are a good source of sturmey archer parts, and it's worth having a go at it yourself.

rhm

As Monster Pete and others have said, these things are easy --surprisingly so, really-- to work on.

HOWEVER I am not convinced there is anything wrong with yours. From the photo we saw, and your description, the bike has not been ridden much at all. I'm sure it has not been ridden enough to put any significant wear on the internal bits of the hub. The problem (I idly speculate while sitting on my porch with a cup of coffee) is that your bike has not been ridden enough lately. Possibly somone put 3-in-1 oil in there at some point and it has gummed up the little springs that press the pawls out into the teeth. If you get some fresh oil in there and work it in (by riding and shifting a lot) the pawls will start to free up.

In case of seriously gummed up hubs it is sometimes necessary to squirt a solvent in there and work that in for a few miles, then put in oil. Before long, it will be fine.

Obviously, I haven't looked at your hub. So I could be totally wrong. But... yeah, I doubt it. Good luck!

okane

Just finished rehabbing an old Schwinn with a 3sp SA with the same problem....free wheel in low, 2/3 ok. Just needed a cable adjustment. Check to make sure yours isn't a similiar problem.

cny-bikeman

Yes, SA overhauls will take longer than a standard rear wheel overhaul, but the demo I linked to above takes all of 10 minutes. Of course one has to clean, inspect, replace and grease, but I think it's reasonable to complete one in about 30-40 minutes tops. I would expect labor to be about $35-50. The good news is that with proper lubrication and adjustment one will need to overhaul again for many years. It is well worth the cost.

Way back in the 70's we used to keep several assembled SA-AW internals on hand, so we could just quickly swap them out. All that was needed was to replace the left hand bearing cage and clean the hub shell. The old ones were then repaired or used in my mechanic's course in the off season so we had a new supply. (I think they call that recycling now)

..and yes, I should have mentioned that it is still possible that the hub was not properly adjusted. It is also posible for a kink or broken link in the indicator chain to prevent it from reaching the 1st gear position.
If the correct indicator chain is installed adjustment is very simple: https://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-arch...tml#adjustment. You can always just carefully pull the chain all the way out by hand. If it still does not engage an overhaul is necessary.

jim p

This brings back memories. My bike was a J.C. Higgens from sears. I rode it many years and finally the low gear got to where the pawls would slip when I really put the pressure on the pedals for my great wheelies. This was not good when the body came in contact with the top tube. Finally the handle bars pulled apart during one of my great wheelies and since I was a kid and lived out in the country I didn't have a clue that the bars could be replaced. The bike stayed around for a few years and then disappeared.

I never took the hub apart but I would adjust on the cable to get the gears to change correctly. My hub finally got to the point that it no longer made a clicking sound as I coasted. I guess the pawls or the engagements were worn down so much that the clicking was no longer audible.

kraemouse

Yeah when I went into the bike shop, I explained the problem as the indicator cable needing adjustment (I'd read on Sheldon's website previously that I'd need that). The guy told me he adjusted it when I came back so it works in 2 and 3 (previously it hadn't) but because my hub was "totally broken" I couldn't use 1st. I tried really hard to listen to what he said, but mechanic-talk gets all foggy to me.. he said something about the freewheel being broken, and the teeth not engaging.. And if I tried to use it, I could snap something... Sorry I'm not of much help with this description.. Young girl here! Anyway, I didn't want to believe him because it's too late- I love the bike. And like rhm said.. This bike has no wear on it. I was told it sat in a garage for 25 years... Seems accurate to me by the looks of everything. I suppose I'll keep taking it in to shops until I get the quote I want (under $50)
thanks for all your help guys! yesterday I was really down about this, now it doesn't seem so bad

gna

I agree with rhm. I would put some 20 or 30 weight oil, or even ATF (automatic transmission fluid), in the hub and ride it.

If the pawls or springs really are worn, maybe sixty-fiver can suggest someone in the area. I recall he's somewhere in the pacific Northwest.

LesterOfPuppets

Nahh, he's east of the Rockies.

jeffpepperdine

You should pop by "Our Community Bikes" on Main St. They are a bicycle recycle shop / do it yourself repair shop.
https://www.yelp.ca/biz/our-community-bikes-vancouver

+1 If you can't get the hub to shift, there's a good chance you can find a whole used wheel that would suit you just fine.

gna

My bad. I thought he was in Portland some of the time, Vancouver some of the time, and Edmonton other times...

JohnDThompson 

He seems to split his time between Edmonton and Portland.

cny-bikeman

My guess as to cost may have been low, but I would think $50 or a bit under should be achievable. Alternatively a variation of the option below might work. As long as your rear wheel is otherwise in good shape do not replace it. Instead, if you can find a 3 speed rear wheel of the same model (still don't know if it's the common AW) and someone can verify that all the gears are working properly, all you have to do is have the guts of the other wheel's hub transferred to yours. Note that this could be a wheel with a damaged rim or one the wrong size - does not matter. You would pay for the used wheel plus a little bit of labor. Mainly depends on what the wheel would cost.

kraemouse

I just checked, it's an AW



Edit: Are all AW's the same size? I notice that these SA hubs seem to come in different lengths(?), measured in mm's.....

Also, can I ask, why am I looking for a whole wheel? Will it be cheaper? Why not just a hub? I don't fully understand..

jrecoi

The axles are different lengths, otherwise identical guts. If you're thinking of swapping the guts of a new AW into the shell of an old one, there shouldn't be any issues. I do say, the right cone adjustment is finnicky (a third of a turn looser than finger tight), and causes problems if mal-adjusted.

If it is a case of gummed up oil, one of the reccomendations is to initially lubricate with WD-40 to soften up and flush out the gunky oil, and then fill up with SAE 10 or 20 weight motor oil to acually lubricate the hub.

Airburst

Replacement internal parts CAN be acquired, but there's one caveat. The modern AW hub uses a different design of low-gear pawl to the traditional one, but the pawls probably aren't the problem. If anything's failed, it'll be the low-gear pawl springs, but I believe the other set of pawls in a modern AW uses the old-fashioned pawl spring design, so you ought to be able to get them. If you didn't know, the pawls are part of the ratcheting mechanism that allows bits of the internals to overrun other bits when different gears are engaged.

I'd also like to refute any suggestion that it's the cable, shifter or indicator chain, because if you don't pull the cable for an AW hub far enough to engage first, you just get second. There's no gap between them like there is between second and third. Something IS out of the ordinary inside your hub, but it's probably just gummed up with old oil.

cny-bikeman

That was just offered as an option to an overhaul. I would suggest an overhaul 1st, assuming your rear wheel is otherwise in good condition (rim true, not dented, spoke turn freely (not rusted in place).

A wheel would be recommended if the rest of your wheel is NOT in good condition. It would be odd to find a used hub alone for sale, and a new one is too expensive.

So...

1. If your wheel is in good condition then go for an overhaul, as you will keep two matched wheels.

2. If your wheel is not in good condition then look for a used 3 speed wheel that takes the same tire size and is in good condition with a working 3 speed hub.

I don't see a good reason to put a new hub on your old rim and spokes, as I doubt you are concerned about keeping the bike close to "original."