I doubt that is the right term to start with but....

... I have a Trek XO1 vintage 2000 with Rolf Vector wheels. I have come to really like these wheels for many reasons. One being I started cycling at a heavier weight and these dang things were very forgiving for my weight, which has come down significantly btw. Just have not beat them up. Am pretty careful with about 60% road and 40% other which includes improved trails. They've just been peachy and they've become like the third girlfriend that you remember with much fondness.

So, being and old dawg/new tricks, I am partial to these Rolf Vectors.

I have spied a couple of wheels with zero anything else. Just the bare wheels or rims if you will. They are stated to be old 'new' stock so per the description it looks attractive.

Question is... a cool thing to acquire these 700c wheels and then with the patience of a couple of saints, build one or two of them up from scratch? Or, when or if unsuccessful (they are reasonable price at the moment, I think) having a bike shop then build them up for me?

What say ye of experience? Does cool = wise? Or am I asking for it? I have the patience of at least one saint, and I do have the intellectual curiosity to want to learn, everything.

You appear to be confused about terminology. "Wheels" refers to the complete things you ride on, maybe minus tyres, tubes, cassette and brake rotors where applicable. "Rims" refers to the hoop-shaped things that run around the outside of the wheel. Spokes are the tensioned wires that make up most of the wheel, and hubs are the bits in the middle with the wheel bearings and whatever.

Building wheels is not particularly difficult, although it does require a few special tools. You obviously need hubs as well, and the correct-length spokes. I laced my first wheel for the same reason you did - it was cool to be able to say I was riding a wheel I'd built myself. I used the Sheldon Brown article on wheelbuilding, and I was 15 at the time, so I reckon any idiot can build wheels with that article. If you have more money than I did, you can get a copy of the book he references in the article, The Bicycle Wheel, by Jobst Brandt, which I suspect would be even more useful.

I loved the look of the Rolfs when they first turned up; the paired spokes look the bomb. I remember hearing bad stuff about them, but it was probably just speculation. The wider gap between the spokes supposedly requires a heavier rim, but IMO the rim just needs to trade lateral rigidity for vertical rigidity for paired spokes... anyway, you seem pretty happy with em.

I'd say your best bet is to lace them up and take them into the shop for tensioning, since the lacing takes a bit of time, and the high tension required in low-spoke-count wheels (say under 28h) really should be checked with a tensiometer.

Also, you don't need money to get hold of a copy of The Bicycle Wheel; the ability to download torrents should suffice, if there enough peers.

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Look on the web for Gerd Schraner's "The Art of Wheelbuilding". It's available as a .PDF download (~6Mbytes) and (IMNSHO) one of the very best treatises on the art. His spoking method is one of the easiest I've ever seen, and doesn't go into the higher-level maths that Jobst Brandt tends to. Sheldon Brown is also pretty good, but Schraner is masterful and simple enough for a bozo like me to easily understand. Good luck! Nothing beats the satisfaction of hurtling down a hill at 50mph on a pair of wheels which 24 hours before were just a pile of wire spokes, nipples, and a couple of rims on your kitchen floor! …and then you start thinking about exactly at exactly what tension you stopped tightening the spokes!
Go for it! …and Good Luck!

- Wil

Why not?

Since you asked it's obviously something that you'd like to try. You said they were available at a favorable price so that's the most you can lose. What you will gain, regardless of how they turn out, is knowledge of wheel building and maintenance. You'll be smarter. Think of the price of the wheels as tuition in the school of bike mechanics.

Thank you all for replying. I did pull down the recommended PDFs and read them back to back.

Art. That is what it is of course. An art. I knew that. I just didn't have the terminology.

What I believe I may do is acquire one or two of these rims, then sleuth out some local wheelbuilders and have them make a run at it. After all, I live in Colorado Springs, Colorado, home of the Olympic Training center and today, it was close to 60 degrees out and I must have passed, correction, I was heading west while several were heading east... that kind of passed, pro riders. Meaning this town is alive with cycle shops and artists to back them all up. My pop enabled the funding for one of the original cycling shops in Colorado Springs back in the 70s, not that this has anything to do with anything...

But I think one post above recommended to 'lace them up' and then thee to a wheel builder. I think I will do this.

Tx all for the replies. Mainly what I was looking for was encourage or discouragement, and I got mostly the plus positive got for it side. I believe I will.

Building wheels is about as difficult as adjusting front derailleurs but obviously takes a lot longer. Jobst Brandt tested his book _The Bicycle Wheel_ by having each of his grade school sons build a pair without any additional help.

There's no good reason not to do it yourself.

There are plenty of good reasons to do it - an abundance of incompetent wheel builders neglect to build their wheels to uniform high tension after which they fail to stay true and can collapse on small bumps, the ability to have your rim replaced tomorrow after you bend one in a crash, and to only pay for the rim (instead of labor ($70 locally) and spokes ($1 each)) when you bend one or wear out its brake tracks.

Art... methinks is an endeavor few can really attain. Today of course who defines what "art" is = another can of worms.

In NO way wheelbuilding is an art.. not by miles. A craft.. probably.. and the "craftsmen" doing such vary in quality a good deal. Even a newbie can build a perfectly sound long lasting wheel first time out.. with patience and understanding the basics. So art it ain't. Don't misunderstand.. not picking on YOU.. just this boring litany of nonsense about some online books gets old. Yes a reasonable starting point.. but being underwritten by a spoke manufacturer means the resultant heavy reference to their product... which are fine. Just one can build same quality with other components... which might well be much more cost effective.

+1. Wheelbuilding isn't an art, you could almost say it's a science.

I get ya'll's point about art v. craft. Not that it matters a whit, but having performed on Broadway, yes, it took craft to get there but maybe a little art is what was produced.

Anyway, the replies have encouraged me to take the plunge. I have really made so many aspects of getting back into cycling about the ride and experience, this is just another part of the experience. So... I'm in. Much learned by all the responses. Not the least of which is ... Art? Yeah, that's some guy's name....

If you read Jobst Brandt, I'm pretty sure he makes the point that it's science rather than art...

But that's only when you're working with as-new stuff. Making do with damaged gear is indeed an art.

This has been an encouraging thread.

Yes... it has been encouraging. Was partly what I was looking for too. Collective enthusiasm and it happened in spades.

The interactivity also got me to a couple of bike shops which kept the dialogue going. Ended up in some lengthy cool discussions with folks who build wheels and it is all good.

You may find it addictive-
I started out with a simple truing stand for some of the crappy CL bikes I was flipping.
Some of them (Huffy etal) have such flexible brake calipers, that when you had the brake pads far enough away from the wobbly wheels, you didn't have enough brake travel to actually stop.

I then started "salvaging" old wheels for the "flip" bikes, swapping a good front rim to a bent rear to get a usable rear wheel etc. THAT really makes you appreciate NEW parts!

I just finished my 3rd NEW wheel from scratch yesterday.
Picked up 2 NOS Sun Rims CTR16 II's Thur. that I'll build for my Hybrid.
I'm starting to get "wheel poor"

Here's some discouragement: I am unabashed in my hatred for paired spoke wheels. Hate, hate, hate. This is a perfect opportunity to ditch Evil Dr. Rolf's abominations and get real wheels with evenly spaced spokes. Or build them, if you'd like. Too high tension, too heavy rims, too few spokes, spokes which tend to pull out of them or cracks in the rims around the spoke holes, overly sensitive to anything more than 1/16-1/8 turn when truing...

In any case, make sure you get paired-spoke rims -- the same Rolf rims would be best, maybe some of the later Trek Bontrager rims would work. Measure the spokes as they come off the wheels -- front spokes will be different lengths from rear; drive side may be different than non-drive side on the rear. You'll need to find specific spoke tension values for those wheels, and they may be higher than non-paired-spoke wheel tensions.

If you decide to rebuild the Rolfs, do yourself a favor and use round spokes, even if the originals were bladed.

No worries. This is not discouraging. It is knowledge. A couple days ago a tech from one of the top cycling shops (that services the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs among other things) essentially said the same thing that you did. Since I crave knowledge, your report is spot on.

Personally, since I am only a legend in my own mind (I felt I had an amazing ride today and felt invincible...), I weigh this info with other factors too.

Regardless, I very much appreciate your dialed in reportage on everything down to the bladed v round spokes. It matters.

It matters.

I will post what I finally end up doing. After years of being away from cycling, and having returned to it over the last 4 months, today was the first day I can truly say the ride was about, the ride. I had cleaned the chain, lubed and detailed several points on the bike (Trek XO1 from days of yore)... so when I went out for what was supposed to be a 'down' day, a day of R&R tho I couldn't help myself and went out anyway... it ended up being about the ride. And that was because I've attended to so much detail like what you posted, I found myself NOT thinking about stuff.

Meaning... attention to detail may eventually lead to the ride instead of fussing over being a gearhead. After I got back I realized paying attention to detail over the last couple of months made the day possible. It didn't hurt that while we should be in the middle of deep winter here, we're T-shirt weather which has been crazy crazy crazy... but my hardware and software was not on my mind. Because I had done some homework.

So amplify on your reply because while I will not set any records, win any events, pursue a glorious career because that is well behind me... knowledge like this does matter.

And............... also admitting to having an irrational love affair with Rolf wheelsets may be a delusional blessing too. But getting from A to B and having it feel about the ride was really quite excellent today.

Having said that... rounded blades. I get and appreciate it.

Heh, I like addictive. The entire experience of building wheels has brought me to a slew of conversations I would never have had otherwise. It has been fantastic. Being 58, I don't feel a day over 57 with all these new convos.

I admit to having an unrealistic view of older Rolf wheelsets, but it is that girlfriend of yore memory thing. I am not going to set any records. What I may do is have fun... and if it is addictive while I am at it, cool.

Am reviewing several wheelsets now and will probably make a poor decision, spend too much time rectifying mistakes, more time learning what I don't know, and be uber happy while doing it. Cannot express how much I appreciate being outside, in the elements that should be cold for here but have been temperate for too long like almost all winter too long (drought conditions), and having a great time servicing my older bike. So if I get addicted to tooling up some hinky choices, I'd be thrilled to have the chance.

I know the feeling.
I broke the tib & fib in my lower leg last Oct. (see avatar X ray of my titanium rod)
Last Thursday I took my first few painful steps, wearing only my boot. Friday I needed to use the crutches to help because the tendons were so sore. Talk about atrophy!
I'm not even sure if I'll be able to do minimal riding, since I had the rod driven through my already bad knee.
And here I am, building new wheels for my 2 bikes that may get minimal riding in the future. I have to be able to ride one, just to get groceries. The Hybrid is for fun. I'm hoping maybe by summer? to actually log some miles for fun. BTW, I turned 65 on Monday-

Word up to all the enthusiastic codgers ; )

That'll prolly be me one day; I've been 25 for nearly 15 years : )

What's your reasoning there? IMO bladed spokes rock, not least for their ability to show wind-up like it's lit up in neon.

Tx to all who have thrown their $0.02 in. Am assembling all of this and pressing forward.

Ok, here is one last question, until the next last question.

Currently on the Trek bike I have 18 + 20 hole wheels. Is there a problem with building an 18 + 18 wheelset? Or am I far better served by staying with 18 + 20 in the configuration? These are old Rolf Vectors and may have a shot a some rims but they are only 18 hole.

Fire at will... and sure I will have some folks gasping at the question but again, am a newb who will no question is living and learning.

tx

I would STRONGLY recommend your first few wheel builds be 36 or 32H conventional 3 cross.

all that fancy minimal spoking high tension cute crowfoot stuff is A) bogus and B) a real pain to lace and true. if you have half as many spokes, they each have to have twice the tension.

+1. Low spoke-count wheels aren't even lighter, normally. Sheldon explains all. https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#spokes