Hey Guys,

I'm thinking of buying this old Klein with Dura Ace shifters and derailleurs....but I'm thinking that something is wrong with the way this RD is sitting....

Is that just something to do with D/A....or is something terribly wrong there?

The picture is no help. Take one from the side so the entire profile of the derailleur is visible.

It appears to be in a fairly small front-rear combo but is still taking up chain slack, so the spring would seem to be OK. If you are referring to how far forward the body is - parallel to the chainstay - that's pretty normal for that model, though adjustable if necessary with the B-tension screw. If you do a Google image search for vintage Dura Ace rear derailleur you will see numerous similar examples.

Do you have a better picture? A side view, not an above view?

I had the guy take a better pic:



Whatchya think? (And THANKS!)

I'll be paying top-dollar for this old bike ($700) so I want it to be good. (Looks O-K to me now...guess it was just the angle that the other pic was taken at....but I'm sure yous[sic] guys know better than noobie I)

Oh, and PS: While I've got you guys:

Do any of you know what the biggest rear cog is that I could run with that der.?

I believe the bike has it's original 12-23. And I've only been riding for c. 9 months, having formerly been out-of-shape, and living in hilly terrain- so there are still some hills I wouldn't be able to make it up with this bike (Tested that by riding my current triple equipped bike in 40/23)...if I were able to run a significantly larger gear back there, it'd help out!

Check to see if the "B-screw" (The small bolt at the back of the derailleir's mounting bolt eye) is behind and stopped against the little tab at the bottom of the dropout. If it's in front, the derailleur will pivot too far forward.

I'm not sure which version of the Dura Ace that is but it should work with at least a 26 or 28T largest cog.

Thanks! I'd be pretty happy if it'd work with a 28T!

Atthis point, as for the der. angle, all I have to go by are pics.......as long as it's nothing obviously unfixable, like a busted internal spring or something, I'll be happy. (I heard that these Shimano der.s are not serviceable/can't get parts for 'em... and I don't want to have to replace one when I'm paying top dollar for an old bike)

Again, that model is designed to sit well forward, and the position can be adjusted with the B-tension screw. As the bike has a pretty small block freewheel it's understandable that the derailleur is pivoted more forward. As I noted before the derailleur seems to be holding the chain under tension just fine, so there is not issue with the spring.

That rear derailleur appears to be a 9 speed 7700 short cage. This won't work with a 28 tooth I don't think very well. You need a triple compatible short or long cage RD for that. The same era replacement would be the 7703 which does work with triple cranks and up like a 27 or 28 in the back. You could also get a used Ultegra RD-6503 or RD 6603 on there and be able to handle the bigger rear (low) cassette cog.

That rear derailleur looks fine to me, that fact that the body is moved so far forward and adequately wrapping chain is a good thing. If it makes you feel better you might try removing one or two links from the chain to pull the lower cage out to an orientation that looks better to your eye but either way I would think its OK.

One last suggestion is to keep the current Dura Ace short cage with tight 9 speed cluster and just change your cranks instead. You can order a New Ace compact crank or get a used compact by Shimano or some other company that should work. The smaller front chainring afforded by the smaller BCD (bolt circle distance) lets you run like a 34 tooth or 36 tooth small chainring with a 50 tooth big chainring. Personally, I ride triples and haven't officially road tested a compact double as proposed but I imagine it would be the best of both worlds: close ratio rear cog spacing that will allow tight control over your cadence as you get more fit, and the nice combination of chainrings of say 36/50 will give you enough of a low gear to climb good sized hills, the 50x12 or 50x13 biggest gear seems plenty big enough to spin up near 40 MPH on steep downhills ( at a cadence over 120?). At speeds above this on wicked downhills, you're going to be coasting anyway.

Thanks! I just wanted to be sure. Seller says he had the bike tuned/maintained by an LBS, even though he rarely rode it. Anyone can say that, but I tend to believe him, after getting a look at the underside of the bottom bracket in a pic of the serial number....there's not a scratch on it- and according to the SN, the bike was manufactured in '96. (Even though it seems they didn't offer this model till 97!). I'm sure it'll be O-K, now....that first pic, which made it look like the RD was practically touching the chain-stay just freaked me.....

Thank you! Meh...as long as there's nothing wrong with it, and it works....I don't have a problem with it. (Just wanted to check with you guys, as I don't know much about derailleurs, other than how to adjust 'em).

I was also thinking along the same lines- of a compact crank... only problem with that is, that the FD is a braze-on, and I assume that I'd have to lower it for a compact, which would ruin the paint, no? [There's always gotta be SOMETHING! Grrr!]

I have a feeling, I'm just going to have to wait till I get strong enough to ride the standard gearing. (Luckily, I've been making progress- I did pretty good on the day I rode my triple in 40/23...only had to revert to the small ring for the 2 or 3 worst climbs).

I'm not worried at all about the high gears.....as due to the fact that most of the roads I ride are narrowish rural backroads, with not the greatest sight distances, I tend to keep it under 30MPH on the descents. Heck, I ride my brakes down half the hills! There's one good downhill on the wider main road I ride, just as I'm getting home...but the wind always seems to get me there, and no matter what I do, I can't seem to go much above 30 there, either...). Darn.... a 34/50 would be sweet!

Oh, one more question: I heard that these early models had a proprietary (and problematic) BB....would that effect what cranks I could use, if I were able to switch to a compact?

Thanks for all the info.

Depending on exactly which model it is, by then I believe Klein had been acquired by Trek and had gone to a standard English threaded bottom bracket. I know my son-in-law's 1997 Stage Comp is English threaded.

That'd be nice- maybe I'll get lucky on that!

According to Bikepedia, the BB is "

thats a high end square taper cartridge BB with a 115mm long axle.

Is Something Wrong With This D/A RD? <-- yes, is shimano.

Is that good ?

Just saw that it's 73mm English thread..so I guess that IS good...at least I guess it's not the Klein proprietary press/glue-in job......

I'm 50 years old...and I've never had the opportunity to try SRAMpagnolo yet...... I think I have to make one'a them bucket lists..... (Hey, I'm currently riding Sora/2300....SORAaaaaa!!!! .....and I think it's good....)

The biggest issue I see is the Klein frame! Those rear facing drop outs are so wrong IME. Andy.

Yeah, what is up with that?! I could see, maybe the idear is to resist the forward pull of the chain...but conversely, if ya hit a big pot-hole and the QR's a little loose, I could just picture the wheel going sailing out the back!

First I must say i don't know what i speak of and am too opinionated---

Klein was never a race bike. Gary's market was the well off professionally educated guy with enough money to buy a place in the club. The rearward facing drop outs were not an issue for the klein rider as they didn't service their bikes.

Now having put my foot in my mouth all i can say is ask a certain TdF rider after their time trial flat as to the merit of such drop outs. Andy.

That's good- I'm not a racer, and never intend to be. Then again, I'm not a member of the club either; I buy the club-guy's toys after they take the depreciation hit (Well...in this case....16 years after... ).

I DO do my own work though.... Those internally-routed cables are the scariest things!

Baloney.

Having just overhauled a couple of these, I can tell you they're eminently serviceable, and pretty much the duck's guts. Although I'd advise against fully disassembling the lower pivot, as the little collar that holds the pivot bolt onto the cage is a really tight press fit and problematic to get back on there. You should be able to disassemble the pivot enough to clean and re-lube it with no issues, though.

1. I've got that derailleur and I run a 27t just fine. I've also borrowed a wheel with 28t and it worked fine also.

2. I've got that derailleur on a Klein of about that vintage... 1998 model... and compact crank.

3. Rear facing dropouts take about 2-minutes to figure out the first time. Nobody who owns them has a problem with them. You do get a little more chain grease on your fingers when you do it right.

4. The internal cables are only a hassle if you break one and have to re-thread a new one. Change it before it brakes and no biggie.

5. Kleins handle like a race bike... they had limited pro sponsorship but there was ONCE one year and a few domestic pro teams like Lombardi Sports / OFoto. They weren't a whole lot more expensive than the top end of other bike brands, but they did appeal more to people who might be described as desk jockeys with excess spending cash

Kleins also feature some really sweet little touches, not to mention pioneering internal headsets, and often some pretty stunning paint.