New Bike with Uneven "Q-Factor" Pedal Distance?
#27
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Just flip it the spindle and your right there on most stuff.
#28
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#29
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Ok, why don't you take the thing to your nearest bike shop and have yourself professionally fitted. Just be sure to let the shop know that you're deeply concerned about "riding lopsided for years and completely warping your body." I'm absolutely positive that you'll succeed in finding a shop that'll be more than willing to take the weight of your "warped concerns" off of your body (and wallet).
Otherwise, you may want to spend some time researching the "Q" factor issue on the Internet. Doing so might also help you better understand this specific measurement and why some "experts" now recommend a narrower, rather than a wider, "Q" factor (and the possible reasons for having a slightly uneven pedal centerline distance).
Otherwise, you may want to spend some time researching the "Q" factor issue on the Internet. Doing so might also help you better understand this specific measurement and why some "experts" now recommend a narrower, rather than a wider, "Q" factor (and the possible reasons for having a slightly uneven pedal centerline distance).
#30
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Of course I use both of them, but you could use one if you want. A $30 is probably not the improvement over $50 you were looking for, but there you are.
I guess there is the possibility of steel washers as well (or nylon?), I don't have a guess of how many you can stack in there and still have enough threads of pedal spindle in the crank to be secure.
#31
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#32
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Seems to be "square type":
https://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/dst.../XCC-T208.html
I guess you're saying the spacer would go between the BB and the crank...
This can't have been going on for too long as triple chainrings haven't been around too long.
https://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/dst.../XCC-T208.html
I guess you're saying the spacer would go between the BB and the crank...
This can't have been going on for too long as triple chainrings haven't been around too long.
Last edited by ThermionicScott; 02-26-13 at 11:05 AM. Reason: double-checked sources
#33
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As I also posted earlier, asymmetrical Q factors are about as old as chain drive. Q-factor is one of those concerns that folks bring up from time to time, but has never been demonstrated to be meaningful. If it were, then who's to say what's best. If the logic is to have the feet below the hips, consider that people vary tremendously in hip width, so logic would dictate that different people would want different Q-factors, and women in general might want wider Q then men.
In the case of asymmetrical Q, which is right, the wide one or the narrow?
Either way, if it really bothers you, you can shift the cleats of cycling shoes to either side to compensate, or let nature dictate where you place your feet on the pedals if riding with street shoes.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#34
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From: Spokane, WA
Bikes: Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520
So, OK yeah, but on the chance I don't want to ride lopsided for years completely warping my body, is it easy and cheap to (have the LBS) put in some kind of spacer on the left crank?
I was looking into Q-factor a bit previously from the general width issue, and all I seemed to be able to find was some very expensive specific Q spacer bolt things. Like $50 for a bolt (!).
I have no idea really how pedals attach. Is there some extra threading in there where you can just screw on a 50¢ not $50 bolt to put the pedal out a quarter inch?
I must say I find it strange that the industry would opt for lopsided rather than a bit wider.
I was looking into Q-factor a bit previously from the general width issue, and all I seemed to be able to find was some very expensive specific Q spacer bolt things. Like $50 for a bolt (!).
I have no idea really how pedals attach. Is there some extra threading in there where you can just screw on a 50¢ not $50 bolt to put the pedal out a quarter inch?
I must say I find it strange that the industry would opt for lopsided rather than a bit wider.
Very few people care. Its not a big deal.
I'm much more worried about bearing preloads, properly adjusted brakes, smooth shifting, than some tiny oddity.
#35
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Bikes: Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520
I bought these back when this guy was selling them for only $20 (I think he machines them himself). Now there's another guy selling them for a few dollars more (with "nylon washers for easy on/off" -- never seen that before!)
.
.
#36
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I like those. I keep using big wide alloy BMX pedals on my bikes, even my fancy carbon/aluminum road bike because my right ankle is messed up and points outward. When I ride on normal pedals, my right foot tends to slip off. Not with the big wide bmx pedals. Might be interesting to try a set of those extenders with a set of normal pedals.
You should buy a pair, put the right one on your bike, and sell the left one to OP!
#37
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As others have said, it is not a huge amount of "offness". Easier though to just measure the gap between the DT and the backside of each arm... It could be that the left arm is bent a bit also. Pretty common, so look for that possiblitity. Replacment left arms are cheap...so if bent, post all the specifics and pictures and we can give you a URL to the right part ($9-$20 typically).
After reading everything posted, post anew if this is something you really want to pursue a fix for. From the original postings, fixing it yourself will not be likely as there are specific skills and tools need. A good bike shop could do. It will cost you a bit less than $100 or so for parts and labor.
After reading everything posted, post anew if this is something you really want to pursue a fix for. From the original postings, fixing it yourself will not be likely as there are specific skills and tools need. A good bike shop could do. It will cost you a bit less than $100 or so for parts and labor.
#38
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Put your right pedal 12 inches out from the frame and your left pedal 2 inches from the frame, and it will be fairly obvious that asymmetrical pedaling is a "real ergonomic disaster".
And being slightly rather than blatantly off, makes a quarter-inch asymmetry a "subtle but real" ergonomic disaster.
People accept all sorts of strange things in the world as normal, just because they aren't sharp enough to notice -- or worse, go along with "how everybody else does it".
#39
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Are you sure that that historical triple chainrings didn't just have wider Q-factor before that became an issue?
The sane design approach is that if you can't get narrow enough Q-factor (for some people) with triple chainrings -- then triple chainrings are a nice thought but not practical to (continue) implement(ing).
For my bike? Me!
Give me the option to do that, bike industry.
Abso-friggin-lutely. No bike shop should sell any bike without taking a quick stance-measurement against a chart on the floor, and popping on or removing some washers from the pedal system. Or telling you you need to get a single-chainring bike. This is exactly where the bike industry should be going right now. But of course predictably, instead it's a marketing trend of just "narrower Q" that lets the industry keep selling (new and more expensive) one-size-fits-few products.
Yeah, I probably already am just positioning my left foot a quarter inch off the left pedal (riding a casual bike in street clothes).
But it would be nice to have both feet firmly on both pedals.
A bag of assorted sizes of pedal extender bolts ought to be a commonly available bike part for like $10 or $20.
The sane design approach is that if you can't get narrow enough Q-factor (for some people) with triple chainrings -- then triple chainrings are a nice thought but not practical to (continue) implement(ing).
Give me the option to do that, bike industry.
But it would be nice to have both feet firmly on both pedals.
A bag of assorted sizes of pedal extender bolts ought to be a commonly available bike part for like $10 or $20.
#40
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I bought these back when this guy was selling them for only $20 (I think he machines them himself). Now there's another guy selling them for a few dollars more (with "nylon washers for easy on/off" -- never seen that before!)
Of course I use both of them, but you could use one if you want. A $30 is probably not the improvement over $50 you were looking for, but there you are.
I guess there is the possibility of steel washers as well (or nylon?), I don't have a guess of how many you can stack in there and still have enough threads of pedal spindle in the crank to be secure.
Of course I use both of them, but you could use one if you want. A $30 is probably not the improvement over $50 you were looking for, but there you are.
I guess there is the possibility of steel washers as well (or nylon?), I don't have a guess of how many you can stack in there and still have enough threads of pedal spindle in the crank to be secure.
This is highly disorienting. Please stop confusing me.
Unfortunately those bolts only seem to come in 3/4 inch size. I'm actually finding more and cheaper now that I know to search for "pedal extenders" -- but nobody seems to make them in the 1/4" inch I need:
https://www.kneesaver.net/ecommerce/k...tenders-3.html
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=430953
Still looking around...
#41
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As others have said, it is not a huge amount of "offness". Easier though to just measure the gap between the DT and the backside of each arm... It could be that the left arm is bent a bit also. Pretty common, so look for that possiblitity. Replacment left arms are cheap...so if bent, post all the specifics and pictures and we can give you a URL to the right part ($9-$20 typically).
After reading everything posted, post anew if this is something you really want to pursue a fix for. From the original postings, fixing it yourself will not be likely as there are specific skills and tools need. A good bike shop could do. It will cost you a bit less than $100 or so for parts and labor.
After reading everything posted, post anew if this is something you really want to pursue a fix for. From the original postings, fixing it yourself will not be likely as there are specific skills and tools need. A good bike shop could do. It will cost you a bit less than $100 or so for parts and labor.
#42
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Bikes: 2008 Novara Randonee - love it. Previous bikes:Motobecane Mirage, 1972 Moto Grand Jubilee (my fave), Jackson Rake 16, 1983 C'dale ST500.
Lets say you bring the other crank out 6 mm, and for the sake of argument let's say that 6mm is significant. What if your right leg is shorter than the other, or the distance from your spine to hip joint is smaller on the right than the left side? Wouldn't your "correction" make things worse?? Aside from any body dimensions, wouldn't the greater leverage from your foot being further from the crank arm cause more flexing of the frame on one side than the other?
Last edited by cny-bikeman; 02-26-13 at 01:48 PM.
#43
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Wait... are you helpfully trying to help me achieve what I'm trying to achieve, rather than giving me your opinions on what I'm trying to achieve... **********?
This is highly disorienting. Please stop confusing me.
Unfortunately those bolts only seem to come in 3/4 inch size. I'm actually finding more and cheaper now that I know to search for "pedal extenders" -- but nobody seems to make them in the 1/4" inch I need:
https://www.kneesaver.net/ecommerce/k...tenders-3.html
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=430953
Still looking around...
This is highly disorienting. Please stop confusing me.
Unfortunately those bolts only seem to come in 3/4 inch size. I'm actually finding more and cheaper now that I know to search for "pedal extenders" -- but nobody seems to make them in the 1/4" inch I need:
https://www.kneesaver.net/ecommerce/k...tenders-3.html
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=430953
Still looking around...
You won't find them shorter. Think about it. You need the threads on your current pedal to fully seat. In order to do that, the adapter has to space your pedal out farther than the length of the thread on the pedal.
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Last edited by jsharr; 02-26-13 at 02:25 PM.
#44
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From: Gaseous Cloud around Uranus
Boy,I don't know.....Crank being off a 1/4",handlebars not centered by 1/8",seat to low by 3/16"......Sounds like you better sell it before you end up in a wheelchair for the rest of your life.....
How much is it to blueprint a bicycle anyways?
Put the ruler away and go enjoy your new bike......

How much is it to blueprint a bicycle anyways?
Put the ruler away and go enjoy your new bike......
Last edited by Booger1; 02-26-13 at 02:24 PM.
#45
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From: Syracuse, NY
Bikes: 2008 Novara Randonee - love it. Previous bikes:Motobecane Mirage, 1972 Moto Grand Jubilee (my fave), Jackson Rake 16, 1983 C'dale ST500.
All you have to do to see that something is ridiculous is exaggerate it. This is how comedians earn their living.
Put your right pedal 12 inches out from the frame and your left pedal 2 inches from the frame, and it will be fairly obvious that asymmetrical pedaling is a "real ergonomic disaster". And being slightly rather than blatantly off, makes a quarter-inch asymmetry a "subtle but real" ergonomic disaster.
People accept all sorts of strange things in the world as normal, just because they aren't sharp enough to notice -- or worse, go along with "how everybody else does it".
Put your right pedal 12 inches out from the frame and your left pedal 2 inches from the frame, and it will be fairly obvious that asymmetrical pedaling is a "real ergonomic disaster". And being slightly rather than blatantly off, makes a quarter-inch asymmetry a "subtle but real" ergonomic disaster.
People accept all sorts of strange things in the world as normal, just because they aren't sharp enough to notice -- or worse, go along with "how everybody else does it".
As for your closing statement, though I totally agree with the statement it's irrelevent, as noticing a difference does not in itself argue for changing it.
Part of the deal when you ask advice of knowledgeable people is that you can expect they will inform you of something they are concerned you overlooked. I've done that, you will do what you wish, so good luck.
Last edited by cny-bikeman; 02-26-13 at 02:36 PM.
#46
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Being "sharp" is one thing; obsessing over things that really don't matter is another.
Btw, how in the world do you manage to walk on uneven or off-chamber ground without completely warping your body?
#47
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From: Spokane, WA
Bikes: Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520
Yes, both my feet are turned out; without extenders I get ITband pain at the outside of my knees from having my feet forcibly rotated inwards. If I adjust my cleats so my feet are comfortable, my heels hit the cranks every rotation. Pedal extenders perfectly fit the bill.
You should buy a pair, put the right one on your bike, and sell the left one to OP!
You should buy a pair, put the right one on your bike, and sell the left one to OP!
#48
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But hey if you want to fiddle, that's your right, I'd love to hear if it makes any difference!
Unfortunately those bolts only seem to come in 3/4 inch size. I'm actually finding more and cheaper now that I know to search for "pedal extenders" -- but nobody seems to make them in the 1/4" inch I need
Otherwise, you'd have to look at solutions where the extender end is thicker than the spindle end, so the spindle can screw into the inside of the extender threads. So you either tap a larger threading into your cranks, or you machine your spindle threads smaller.
Anyways, it may be that your desired 1/4" is in the gap between what washers and standard-threading extenders can do. Also not cheap, but speedplays I believe can be ordered in various spindle lengths. Perhaps you can custom-order a pair with different l/r spindles?
#49
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Most BB are of a fixed length and the offset or symmetry are a manufacturing design,
and so only by buying a different BB will it be any alteration. 1/4" may be having used a symmetric BB
and then installing a Crank set better suited to a BB that is not Symmetrical, [or visa versa]
though The right crank arm is better judged by how well the chainline is laid out,
in relation to the cassette, F/W gears on the back
and letting the pedal relationship be Que' Sera, Sera.
and so only by buying a different BB will it be any alteration. 1/4" may be having used a symmetric BB
and then installing a Crank set better suited to a BB that is not Symmetrical, [or visa versa]
though The right crank arm is better judged by how well the chainline is laid out,
in relation to the cassette, F/W gears on the back
and letting the pedal relationship be Que' Sera, Sera.
#50
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From: Spokane, WA
Bikes: Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520
I'm on your side here dude, I agree this not a stupid question (unless all bike fit questions are stupid); but I also trust many of the experienced voices in here that say that this particular issue turns out not to actually cause people problems.
But hey if you want to fiddle, that's your right, I'd love to hear if it makes any difference!
But hey if you want to fiddle, that's your right, I'd love to hear if it makes any difference!




