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oops! I might of over-tightened my crank!

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oops! I might of over-tightened my crank!

Old 03-27-13, 12:09 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by AlexTheRabbit View Post
So how much would that cost me about?
So it would be possible to use the old crankset?
I honestly have no idea how much it would cost. I would venture that a cost of a new bottom bracket assembly would be around 20-40 dollars. If you have the tools or access to a bike co-op, then I would do it myself.

I would consider trying the old crankset, it might not be damaged but a better picture of the square mounting location would give us a better idea.
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Old 03-27-13, 12:35 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
Your crankarm should end up with a nice little gap between the spindle and the bolt mounting surface, something like this:


(courtesy Sheldon Brown again)
Quick question! What if I rode around like this, I'm only riding short distances and probably no more than 5 miles a day? because I mean there isnt TOO much resistance. and I'm going to probably replace all the old parts.
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Old 03-27-13, 12:44 PM
  #28  
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You will ruin parts. This is a classic case of incompatible parts. The only thing holding the crankarm to the spindle is the pressure from the fixing bolt. The taper on the spindle isn't large enough to put enough torque on the crankarm to properly hold it in place. YOu already saw what happened, your crankarm worked itself loose, the original Sugino. The Sugino isn't the original arm to the Peugeot, that was error one. Error two is replacing the Sugino with another modern JIS taper crankarm.

The proper solution would have been to put a proper JIS taper bottom bracket spindle in place of the old ISO taper bottom bracket if you wanted to continue to use modern JIS crankarms.

Asking if the bike is safe to ride is like bringing a car with grinding brakes to a repair shop and them telling you that you are metal to metal on the braking surfaces and you then asking is that safe to ride without fixing it? It might be doable but you are making the problem worse and potentially putting yourself in harms way.
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Old 03-27-13, 12:50 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
You will ruin parts. This is a classic case of incompatible parts. The only thing holding the crankarm to the spindle is the pressure from the fixing bolt. The taper on the spindle isn't large enough to put enough torque on the crankarm to properly hold it in place. YOu already saw what happened, your crankarm worked itself loose, the original Sugino. The Sugino isn't the original arm to the Peugeot, that was error one. Error two is replacing the Sugino with another modern JIS taper crankarm.

The proper solution would have been to put a proper JIS taper bottom bracket spindle in place of the old ISO taper bottom bracket if you wanted to continue to use modern JIS crankarms.

Asking if the bike is safe to ride is like bringing a car with grinding brakes to a repair shop and them telling you that you are metal to metal on the braking surfaces and you then asking is that safe to ride without fixing it? It might be doable but you are making the problem worse and potentially putting yourself in harms way.
Ima ride a death trap untill I get the money to replace the parts next week
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Old 03-27-13, 04:42 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by AlexTheRabbit View Post
Ima ride a death trap untill I get the money to replace the parts next week
You'll probably trash the crank, and Murphy's Law dictates that, if it comes off, it'll come off as you're pedalling hard to get across a junction...

Even if you don't fall off the bike, you'll hit the frame pretty hard if the crank comes off under hard pedalling. If you've got male genitals, you won't have them afterwards...
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Old 03-27-13, 05:17 PM
  #31  
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I found the State Bicycle Co website, which sells fixie bike parts; the crank the OP is trying to mount has a single 1/8" chainring. I betting however that bobotech is is wrong about the JIS/ISO mismatch. The OEM Sugino VP crank is JIS, so the one would assume the bottom bracket is JIS also, and the State Bicycle Co. crankset uses a 68x103 bottom bracket (unknown ISO or JIS); but regardless as even if there is a mismatch of a JIS BB spindle and the crank, this would cause the crank to sit outboard farther, not less.
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Old 03-27-13, 05:26 PM
  #32  
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The previous owner put incorrect Sugino cranks on a Peugot ISO bottom bracket. That's probably why the cranks were trashed when the OP bought the bike.
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Old 03-27-13, 05:54 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
Bingo, that is exactly what I was worried about. The bottom bracket is an old style ISO with a thinner taper that bottoms out on a modern JIS spindle. The crankarm has sunk too deep onto the spindle.

You will need to replace the bottom bracket spindle with a modern JIS taper spindle and you will probbaly be fine. I bet that even the original SUgino crankarm could still be used. If you keep trying to use the original bottom bracket spindle, you will keep running into this issue of crankarms working themselves loose and causing more damage.
Assuming the problem is not simply the bottom bracket spindle is just to short for the new crankset (since the State Bicycle Co uses a 103mm), think the problem may be that the crank was designed around a cartridge BB; not loose ball. Older cranks are designed around a flat fixed cup, so the back of the crank is very close to flat. However, some cranks like the OP's new State Bicycle crankset, were made assuming a cartridge bottom brackets would be used and have a tapered profile on the rear of the crank, which would be able to fit a millimeter or two into the splined fixed cup, were if it was a flat fixed cup it would mash up against it; since the OP says the dragging he is feeling is minor, I would guess this is the issue.
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Old 03-27-13, 05:59 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by onespeedbiker View Post
I found the State Bicycle Co website, which sells fixie bike parts; the crank the OP is trying to mount has a single 1/8" chainring. I betting however that bobotech is is wrong about the JIS/ISO mismatch. The OEM Sugino VP crank is JIS, so the one would assume the bottom bracket is JIS also, and the State Bicycle Co. crankset uses a 68x103 bottom bracket (unknown ISO or JIS); but regardless as even if there is a mismatch of a JIS BB spindle and the crank, this would cause the crank to sit outboard farther, not less.
Originally Posted by cranky old road View Post
The previous owner put incorrect Sugino cranks on a Peugot ISO bottom bracket. That's probably why the cranks were trashed when the OP bought the bike.
Exactly. The Peugeot BB spindle is probably ISO which have the thinner taper. Someone before the OP put the Sugino crankset on it and it failed due to the oversized square taper of a JIS compared to ISO. So all the OP is doing is putting the wrong part in place of the wrong part. If he were to source an original ISO Stronglight or something like that, it would mate up fine more than likely. However its probably easier just to replace the BB spindle with a proper JIS spindle that will allow the use of modern cranksets.
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Old 03-27-13, 06:01 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by onespeedbiker View Post
Assuming the problem is not simply the bottom bracket spindle is just to short for the new crankset (since the State Bicycle Co uses a 103mm), think the problem may be that the crank was designed around a cartridge BB; not loose ball. Older cranks are designed around a flat fixed cup, so the back of the crank is very close to flat. However, some cranks like the OP's new State Bicycle crankset, were made assuming a cartridge bottom brackets would be used and have a tapered profile on the rear of the crank, which would be able to fit a millimeter or two into the splined fixed cup, were if it was a flat fixed cup it would mash up against it; since the OP says the dragging he is feeling is minor, I would guess this is the issue.
Did you see the last picture the OP posted on the last posts of the previous page? Did you see how the square taper was flush with the crank arm, that is the issue. the square taper on the BB is thinner and not allowing the crankarm to seat properly. JIS vs ISO in the extreme.

The Sugino Vp wasn't original to the 70's era Peugeot as far as I know. According to Velobase, the Sugino VP was an 80's era part but the bike looks like a 70's era bike due to the cable stops.
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Old 03-27-13, 06:02 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by cranky old road View Post
The previous owner put incorrect Sugino cranks on a Peugot ISO bottom bracket. That's probably why the cranks were trashed when the OP bought the bike.
It all depends as no one one has asked the OP about the year and model. The Peugeot 1986 mountain bike (Orient Express), came with a Sugino TNF VP crankset.
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Old 03-27-13, 06:07 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by onespeedbiker View Post
It all depends as no one one has asked the OP about the year and model. The Peugeot 1986 mountain bike (Orient Express), came with a Sugino TNF VP crankset.
I don't think many Peugeots used those old school style cable stops with pump braze-ons in the '80s if at all.
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Old 03-27-13, 06:28 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by AlexTheRabbit View Post
http://bmxmuseum.com/forsale/pict0333_blowup.jpg
sugino vp crank.
uhhh for the crank that I put on it, it is some local brand called "state bicycle co" I decided to check them out since they were not too bad of a price.
State Bicycle Co.? Wait a second... are you in Arizona?

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Old 03-27-13, 07:42 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
I don't think many Peugeots used those old school style cable stops with pump braze-ons in the '80s if at all.
That's a 70's Peugeot. I'm nearly certain and a low end one too. That also means a French threaded bottom bracket. Assuming the OP wants or needs to replace it, that will only complicate things. Dealing with French bottom brackets is a labor of love. However, Velo Orange makes them just an expensive date.

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Old 03-27-13, 10:24 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
Did you see the last picture the OP posted on the last posts of the previous page? Did you see how the square taper was flush with the crank arm, that is the issue. the square taper on the BB is thinner and not allowing the crankarm to seat properly. JIS vs ISO in the extreme.

The Sugino Vp wasn't original to the 70's era Peugeot as far as I know. According to Velobase, the Sugino VP was an 80's era part but the bike looks like a 70's era bike due to the cable stops.
I did and I just received an email from State Bicycle Co and the crank ST is ISO. So assuming the BB is ISO and the Sugino crank replaced the original French ISO crank, you still don't have a mismatch..

Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
I don't think many Peugeots used those old school style cable stops with pump braze-ons in the '80s if at all.
Indeed, I was in a bit of a hurry and wasn't looking that close.

Last edited by onespeedbiker; 03-27-13 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 03-27-13, 10:46 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
That's a 70's Peugeot. I'm nearly certain and a low end one too. That also means a French threaded bottom bracket. Assuming the OP wants or needs to replace it, that will only complicate things. Dealing with French bottom brackets is a labor of love. However, Velo Orange makes them just an expensive date.
The only issue with this statement was the lower level 1970's Peugeot's (PH/AO 8 or below) did not come with cotterless cranksets. If it is as you say (and looks), a low end 70" Peugeot, then at the very least the spindle has also been replaced.

Here is a 74 A08 that looks real close, but with a cottered crank. http://cyclespeugeot.com/images/1974_Peugeot_AO8.jpg

Last edited by onespeedbiker; 03-27-13 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 03-28-13, 05:29 PM
  #42  
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Good point about the cotterless crank. We also know that the Sugino cranks are very likely not original. It would make sense that both the stock crank and spindle were both swapped out by a previous owner, as mentioned earlier.

Disregarding the value of the frame, I would be tempted to swap out the entire bottom bracket, cups and all. This is going to be a single speed, correct? Now might be a good time to get the proper length spindle for a perfect chain line.
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