Lacing pattern for trailer wheels?
#1
Thread Starter
Passista


Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,262
Likes: 1,234
Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility
Lacing pattern for trailer wheels?
I'm going to build 2 wheels for a homemade light trailer using wheelchair hubs and 28 hole 20" rims. Not sure about the crossing, some trailers have 3x and some 0x (radial). I'd like to know the opinions of the expert wheelbuilders here.
#2
Senior Member


Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39,897
Likes: 3,865
From: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Build them 2x or 3x with the spokes laced over/under at the cross.
Since they're essentially front wheels (no torque) tangent spoking doesn't confer a direct benefit, but it allows for the over/under lacing, which builds a bit of resiliency into the wheel.
Since they're essentially front wheels (no torque) tangent spoking doesn't confer a direct benefit, but it allows for the over/under lacing, which builds a bit of resiliency into the wheel.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#3
I'll ditto FB- 2x would be my preference just to get a little more lateral strength. (Interlaced spokes share sideways load where radial tends to concentrate the load on fewer spokes.)
FWIW: what are you using for rims? I'm building front wheels for my recumbents, and I'm having a heck of a time finding decent 20", 28-hole rims (that aren't Sun CR-18).
FWIW: what are you using for rims? I'm building front wheels for my recumbents, and I'm having a heck of a time finding decent 20", 28-hole rims (that aren't Sun CR-18).
__________________
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
#4
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 672
Likes: 1
From: River City, OR
I'll ditto FB- 2x would be my preference just to get a little more lateral strength. (Interlaced spokes share sideways load where radial tends to concentrate the load on fewer spokes.)
FWIW: what are you using for rims? I'm building front wheels for my recumbents, and I'm having a heck of a time finding decent 20", 28-hole rims (that aren't Sun CR-18).
FWIW: what are you using for rims? I'm building front wheels for my recumbents, and I'm having a heck of a time finding decent 20", 28-hole rims (that aren't Sun CR-18).
#5
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 30,225
Likes: 649
From: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
What are the hubs designed for?
An issue with radial laced wheels is whether or not the hubs have enough "meat" between the spoke holes and the edge of the hub flange to handle the load. Using a crossing pattern solves that problem because the spoke is pulling at an angle where there's more material between the spoke hole and the edge.
Another thing you might want to look at is the thickness of the hub flange. If it's a steel hub with relatively thin flanges it might be a good idea to use spoke washers to fill in the extra space at the elbows.
An issue with radial laced wheels is whether or not the hubs have enough "meat" between the spoke holes and the edge of the hub flange to handle the load. Using a crossing pattern solves that problem because the spoke is pulling at an angle where there's more material between the spoke hole and the edge.
Another thing you might want to look at is the thickness of the hub flange. If it's a steel hub with relatively thin flanges it might be a good idea to use spoke washers to fill in the extra space at the elbows.
#6
Banned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 43,586
Likes: 1,380
From: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 8
My Burly uses 2 cross 28 hole ( 3 would be like 4X on a 36 hole wheel)
there is a longer set of spokes on one side, of each wheel.
the wheels are asymmetrical, to make the wheel track wider , to increase stability..
there is a longer set of spokes on one side, of each wheel.
the wheels are asymmetrical, to make the wheel track wider , to increase stability..
#8
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 19,381
Likes: 5,528
From: Rochester, NY
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
What was ingenious with the Burley trailers was the offset hitch. So the right side wheel/frame was no further off center then the bike's handle bars or pedals. Andy.
#9
Thread Starter
Passista


Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,262
Likes: 1,234
Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility
I had always thought the reason why Burly used offset/dished wheels was to increase the clearance between the tire and the trailer body. Cornering forces would work against the dish (spoke angle will have less bracing) that the wheels have and the slight increase of track width (maybe 1" over a 30" width) is an unlikely reason to go to the effort of dishing wheels.
What was ingenious with the Burley trailers was the offset hitch. So the right side wheel/frame was no further off center then the bike's handle bars or pedals. Andy.
What was ingenious with the Burley trailers was the offset hitch. So the right side wheel/frame was no further off center then the bike's handle bars or pedals. Andy.
#10
Yeah, I wouldn't try to do 3 x on a 20" with 28 spokes. That would be a real wrestling match to get the spokes into place and too much angle out of the rim I'm sure. With a large hub flange, I even go 1x on 20" wheels, even with higher spoke counts.
#11
Senior Member


Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,518
Likes: 40
From: San Jose, California
Bikes: 2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed
2X
Also, if the hubs are sleeve type with journals - do not use bearing equipped end caps when truing and tensioning the wheels. You need to use a false sleeve with bearings to mount in truing stand when truing/tensioning.
If you try to use end caps alone like you might do with over sized hollow axle disc setups - you'll end up truing the hub - not the rim. One result will be extremely high tension on several spokes and the opposite on others as well.
=8-)
Also, if the hubs are sleeve type with journals - do not use bearing equipped end caps when truing and tensioning the wheels. You need to use a false sleeve with bearings to mount in truing stand when truing/tensioning.
If you try to use end caps alone like you might do with over sized hollow axle disc setups - you'll end up truing the hub - not the rim. One result will be extremely high tension on several spokes and the opposite on others as well.
=8-)
__________________
5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
lopek77
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg)
19
10-12-12 09:07 AM






