"'Licensed' by the USCF is just fancy wording."

And after you pay for the certification, you still have to buy the damn patch and a hat to stick it on.

I believe your information is inaccurate. When my wife and I attended last summer the certification exams were timed, graded, and fairly vigorous. I was impressed. Also Barnett's is held to standards "Approved and Regulated By The Colorado Department of Higher Education" and it shows.

The patch at Barnett's is free.

1) YES
2) YES

Like an earlier post about the haircutter. I have never been injuried by a bad haircut, but I could sure end up dead if bad mechanic worked on my bike.
I would like to see certification by the bike manufacturers that they only sold to shops that were "factory certified," and employed only trained and certified mechanics. I think this would be a step in making "wrenches" a bit more professional, and not just college kids looking for a discount on bike parts.
Would I pay more for this as a consumer? Well lets just say I was 300 miles from home on a week long tour and something broke on my bike, and there were two shops listed in the local yellow pages. Joes Bait Tackle and Bike repairs, and Bob's Bikes Cannondale & Giant certified. Who would you choose?

In my trade I can not purchase "Corian" to make a counter top unless I have taken and passed the course DuPont requires, and this is just material to make a counter top out of. Never seen an injury due to a failed counter top. I also can not install it in your house unless I am liscensed by the the state, bonded, and insured.

To the Rev, I beleive that there are a lot of people out there that do know what they are doing, but how would I know, you knew anything about bikes, if I walked into your shop with a busted bike because you were the closet one I could find.

I exude experience

Licensing means only one thing! A tax has been collected by some Govt. organization.

Credentials/certification can mean anything. You don't know from a certificate if someone is qualified. Seen any incompetent auto mechanics, lawyers, teachers, doctors, accountants, etc.? Mayby it's better than nothing, mayby not.

There's a foew bike schools that I know of that will "certify" people. NOt sure the benefits of it though. Maybe when you apply for a mechanics job, it will look better?

UBI (United Bicycle Institute) has an "Advanced Certification Seminar Week." for $650. I think that you can be certified for wheel building, and bike assembling at that thing....

There is lots of misinformation here about Barnett's. I took a Barnett's course and was "certified" as a Master Technician so I could teach and certify others. I already had more than 10 years in the business, some of that spent working with international team mechanics, framebuilders, etc.... I went to the course thinking I didn't need it and wouldn't learn anything, much like chuck thinks.

Like Sue, I came away with a different point of view. I did learn some new things, especially from some of the other mechs there, and for those without extensive experience in the shop, it would definitely be beneficial. But I still do things taught to me by my first mentor in cycling, a bike racer from the old country, things that aren't taught anywhere I've seen, that are faster and better than anything I've learned from any school or commonly accessible method like Park or Barnett's.

Education is a funny thing. It really isn't what courses you've taken but rather how you take them and what you make of them. I remember the line about the ***** in the book Even Cowgirls get the Blues by Tom Robbins where he says something to the effect that although the ***** never got a degree, it would be a mistake to assume that he never got an education from the seemingly directionless selection of courses he took at Berkely.

Still, I don't think the certification courses are a farce and I do think they provide a valuable liability safety net for companies in today's litigious society. And I think that everyone here could learn at least something new and helpful from them.

You have to have a license to cut hair or drive a car, yes, but I don't get good haircuts from every licensed cutter, and there are plenty of morons behind the wheel of cars. The guy that rear ended me a month ago had a license and everything, but that didn't prevent him from riding my ass in cold and wet conditions.

Everyone seems to think that more regulation will somehow change bad experiences they have. Not in any way, shape or form true. The wrench I learned from worked on jets in the air force, serving in Desert Storm. Then he ends up being a bike mechanic. The best wheelbuilder I know ain't certified to do more than drive a car, but he can pull a motor out of his car and rebuild it in a weekend, as well as tie and solder a wheelset that you'll never, ever have to true. OTOH, I've met bad mechanics that went to Park school or a similar program.

Even a 'certified wrench' can screw up and cause grounds for a lawsuit. Having every wrench in a shop 'certified' might result in lower liability premiums.

Rev,

I think you are the exception to the rule. You are obviously an actual mechanic that works on bikes. A lot of "bike mechanics" are simply someone with little or no mechanical ability that somehow got a job working on bikes. These are the guys that would benefit from a certification course, along with the customer. What people don't realize about certifications, trade certs and things like helmet safety certs, is that they are MINIMUM requirements. Also, unfortunately, industries that do not require certs usually have most of their people working at below what should be the minimum required level.

I work in the IT industry and have several certifications. I found that you learn about 1/3 in the course, 1/3 by experience, AND 1/3 by studying for the certification exam. I have seen some people with lots of experience and no certs making some serious fundamental errors.

What do you call a person that got a D- in medical school**********

DOCTOR

I would get a cert. if it did not cost a lot of money. Like I said if I have to spend $650 it will be on a frame course(Mostly I want to get up close to a frame jig so I can measureand make one ) , or get my welding certification. That course is 6 months for about the same $$ as a week bike course. I want my moneys worth
Part of being a good mechanic is realising that you don't know what you are doing. If I get a new fork or shock in, I read up before I start taking stuff apart. I installed my first RaceFace Diabolus last month and read through the instructions twice. If you don't you will put it together wrong. I don't doubt school will help those that have no training or limited "Well, I do all the work on my own bike" training. i guess I am a hyprocrite because I wouldn't mind having a new guy come in with a little piece of paper showing that he was not totally incompetent. Be nice if they at least knew not to clamp a bike over the decals (A coworker clamped my Yamaguchi that way and mesed up the seat tube decals, AND IT HAD A SEATPOST IN IT. All the decals are gone from my wheels because the bikes get moved and they hang them at the decal.)

But the decal thing is common sense. And therein lies the problem. Certifiy someone that lacks common sense and they just have a piece of paper that shows that they've seen and done something before. They're still liable to screw it up. Again, licenses don't prevent mistakes from being made, nor do they prevent those that shouldn't be within 100 yards of a bike and allen wrench from working on bikes. And as someone said earlier, if we do see a day when certification becomes a requirement, our shop labor rates will go through the freakin' roof. Then again, it might make more folks do their own stuff, which would at least educate people about their bikes. But that's a whole other thread for another time entirely.

[
What do you call a person that got a D- in medical school**********

DOCTOR [/QUOTE]

Actually, it is "what do you call the person who graduates at the bottom of his or her medical school class"

But here's another one for thought in the context of this thread.

"What becomes of a medical doctor who fails to get board certified?"

He will likely find something, but he will be excluded from many practice opportunites and will be denied hospital privileges at most hospitals throughout the country.

Licensed...not liscnece

Actually, it is "what do you call the person who graduates at the bottom of his or her medical school class"

But here's another one for thought in the context of this thread.

"What becomes of a medical doctor who fails to get board certified?"

He will likely find something, but he will be excluded from many practice opportunites and will be denied hospital privileges at most hospitals throughout the country.[/QUOTE]

You call that person one less scam artist who wants to make as much money as he or she can through the sale of drugs and health insurance instead of helping sick people...(health insurance is a another topic). There are too many things regulated in the United States, too many rules, laws, litigation, Licenses, etc.. read or listen to George Carlin.

There are plenty of qualified bike mechanics out there... you just find one by talking to them and by word of mouth, years of experience is a good indicator also. I have a friend who is a mechanic who can fix anything, he used to work on heavy duty trucks and construction vehicles... I would trust him to do anything on my bike or my heavy duty clutch. I wish I could do what he can. I am jealous of his abilities.

Interesting concept, but it wouldn't change one fact; nobody works on my bikes but me.