Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Cursed Headset Guy

Search
Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Cursed Headset Guy

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-18-13 | 06:23 PM
  #1  
anthonygeo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Western kentucky

Bikes: Kickbike, Raleigh M60, Electra Cruiser, Marin Nail Trail, Schwinn Hinge

Cursed Headset Guy

Ok the last two headsets were semi-user error but this one came to me wrong. Free bike not free of an issue or two. When I got this cruiser I could see the bearings and the guy said a LBS ordered the correct bearings. I couldn't get the race or lock nut to go any further. I really think the bearings are too small so what do I measure on the seat to order a new set.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
image.jpg (97.6 KB, 27 views)
anthonygeo is offline  
Reply
Old 09-18-13 | 06:36 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39,897
Likes: 3,865
From: New Rochelle, NY

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Of course I can't be sure without seeing the entire headset assembled, but from what I see here, this could very well be the right retainer. Retainers are sold by product number or headset brand/model rather than size, and it's been many decades since I bought one, but I suspect this might be a #22 .

The alternative is to measure the diameter of the balls, and pack the headset with loose balls. No great precision is needed because it's probably 5/32" or 3/16". There's also 1/8" but it's not common in headsets. Balls don't come in sized between these, so if you can measure to within 1/32" you're in.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Reply
Old 09-18-13 | 06:38 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 766
Likes: 1
I don't really see the problem. The bearing appear to fit on the race nicely. Does it not fit into the cup? Bear in mind it is a low-end headset without much precision. It is not uncommon to see a fairly large gap between the cup and race when the two are mounted.
techsensei is offline  
Reply
Old 09-18-13 | 07:25 PM
  #4  
anthonygeo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Western kentucky

Bikes: Kickbike, Raleigh M60, Electra Cruiser, Marin Nail Trail, Schwinn Hinge

I've seen some on here say just put an o-ring in to seal the gap and I'm good with that. The bottom race and bearings fit just fine. I tried a bigger caged bearing and it slides down farther but doesn't fit in the cup. See pic, top is the OG bearings and bottom is the spare.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
image.jpg (96.7 KB, 18 views)
anthonygeo is offline  
Reply
Old 09-18-13 | 07:30 PM
  #5  
anthonygeo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Western kentucky

Bikes: Kickbike, Raleigh M60, Electra Cruiser, Marin Nail Trail, Schwinn Hinge

Ok here is a pic of the o-ring filling the gap, I'm not sure this will create the tight fit needed or that it will allow smooth steering. FYI the frame and fork are in the process of painting, should be ready to go by the weekend.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
image.jpg (123.6 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by anthonygeo; 09-18-13 at 07:38 PM.
anthonygeo is offline  
Reply
Old 09-18-13 | 07:38 PM
  #6  
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 19,349
Likes: 5,466
From: Rochester, NY

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB

It's a simple mater to load the cup with a full complement of loose balls (then take one out) and see how the cup and cone fit together. Too large a ball and the cup/cone won't fit fully together, too small and they will fit too far together. Remember the ball diameter is different then the number of balls. Once the ball diameter is determined then the choice of retainer becomes much easier. But then you have already come up with a solution that is better then the retainer, a full set of loose balls. The only reason retainers exist at all is to ease factory assembly. One step opposed to 22 (or how many balls there are) to load the bearings in place.
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Reply
Old 09-18-13 | 07:40 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39,897
Likes: 3,865
From: New Rochelle, NY

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Originally Posted by anthonygeo
Ok mm I see what you mean...
You asked, then edited out (caught you) whether the balls would group, and you're right. I guess I should have mentioned that a loose ball headset uses more balls than your retainer has. Essentially you fill the race, less one if in doubt because a ball or two short is fine, but one too many is death (think blackjack, as close to the max as possible, but going over is bust).
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Reply
Old 09-18-13 | 07:41 PM
  #8  
anthonygeo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Western kentucky

Bikes: Kickbike, Raleigh M60, Electra Cruiser, Marin Nail Trail, Schwinn Hinge

Originally Posted by FBinNY
Originally Posted by anthonygeo
Ok mm I see what you mean...
You asked, then edited out (caught you) whether the balls would group, and you're right. I guess I should have mentioned that a loose ball headset uses more balls than your retainer has. Essentially you fill the race, less one if in doubt because a ball or two short is fine, but one too many is death (think blackjack, as close to the max as possible, but going over is bust).
You caught me lol but only changed my path because your idea clicked, I'm an artist not a mechanic
anthonygeo is offline  
Reply
Old 09-18-13 | 07:52 PM
  #9  
anthonygeo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Western kentucky

Bikes: Kickbike, Raleigh M60, Electra Cruiser, Marin Nail Trail, Schwinn Hinge

Cursed Headset Guy

Basically the grease will replace the cage.
anthonygeo is offline  
Reply
Old 09-18-13 | 07:57 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39,897
Likes: 3,865
From: New Rochelle, NY

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Originally Posted by anthonygeo
You caught me lol but only changed my path because your idea clicked, I'm an artist not a mechanic
Maybe you can help me. Do you know anything about computer drawing programs? I'm looking for something to draw mechanical sketches (not technical drawings) and at the next level, animations. Any guidance or help from anyone will be welcomed.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Reply
Old 09-18-13 | 08:12 PM
  #11  
anthonygeo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Western kentucky

Bikes: Kickbike, Raleigh M60, Electra Cruiser, Marin Nail Trail, Schwinn Hinge

Originally Posted by FBinNY
Originally Posted by anthonygeo
You caught me lol but only changed my path because your idea clicked, I'm an artist not a mechanic
Maybe you can help me. Do you know anything about computer drawing programs? I'm looking for something to draw mechanical sketches (not technical drawings) and at the next level, animations. Any guidance or help from anyone will be welcomed.
I'm a painter, old school. I'll ask some of the engineer folks at work.
anthonygeo is offline  
Reply
Old 09-18-13 | 08:54 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39,897
Likes: 3,865
From: New Rochelle, NY

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Originally Posted by anthonygeo
I'm a painter, old school. ....
I suspected that, but figured I'd ask. You never know who else may see the post and pipe up.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Reply
Old 09-19-13 | 05:58 AM
  #13  
asmac's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 2
From: Toronto

Bikes: Salsa Vaya

Try this:
https://www.sketchup.com/products/sketchup-make

There's a free version and it's commonly used.
asmac is offline  
Reply
Old 09-19-13 | 08:50 AM
  #14  
anthonygeo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Western kentucky

Bikes: Kickbike, Raleigh M60, Electra Cruiser, Marin Nail Trail, Schwinn Hinge

Cursed Headset Guy

No one chimed in on the o-ring solution. Anyone know if that's really an option?
anthonygeo is offline  
Reply
Old 09-19-13 | 08:55 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39,897
Likes: 3,865
From: New Rochelle, NY

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Originally Posted by anthonygeo
No one chimed in on the o-ring solution. Anyone know if that's really an option?
Yes, if you can find the right O-ring it's a nearly perfect solution for keeping windblown dirt out of a headset. If you ride in the rain, though, the O-ring fit becomes much more critical.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mmcc73
Classic & Vintage
10
10-15-18 12:44 PM
orcas island
Classic & Vintage
18
10-06-13 09:45 AM
Reeses
Bicycle Mechanics
12
08-23-12 11:54 PM
Trunk Monkey
Bicycle Mechanics
2
04-06-12 03:03 PM
MEWD
Classic & Vintage
3
10-24-10 07:34 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.