Can I add some tire clearance to the fork axle-to-crown distance?
#1
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Can I add some tire clearance to the fork axle-to-crown distance?
I have a 1987 Trek 400 with a steel fork. I just installed a set of 700x32 tires, they are undersized and measure about 28mm wide.
The tires clear the chainstays, seatstays and both brakes with ease, I can fit a 5mm allen wrench at these points.
The front tire spins, but has almost zero clearance under the fork crown. I can't fit a 1mm allen wrench at this point.
Can I do anything to the fork increase the tire clearance at this point?
The tires clear the chainstays, seatstays and both brakes with ease, I can fit a 5mm allen wrench at these points.
The front tire spins, but has almost zero clearance under the fork crown. I can't fit a 1mm allen wrench at this point.
Can I do anything to the fork increase the tire clearance at this point?
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When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
Last edited by Barrettscv; 02-03-14 at 01:54 PM.
#3
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From: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
I had the same problem when I set up a track bike for street use about 45 years ago. My solution was to fill the top of the fork slot with 2-3mm of auto body filler, with a short piece cut from a spoke trapped at top dead center both as a gauge and as reinforcement.
This safely pushed the wheel down, and it's been that way ever since. You can't get much more than that because you have to keep the axle and nut (or QR) faces well supported in the flat part of the dropout.
But if 2-3mm is all you need, this is simple enough and works very well.
On some bikes you might also be able to file some away at the front of the crown. Because the front wheel is forward of the crown it comes higher at the front than rear. Filing the crown to follow the rising contour of the wheel can buy you another few millimeters. This will often not work with a caliper brake, since the brake projects forward where the tire is yet higher, and often the tire will touch on the brake while clearing the crown.
Lastly, consider that there's no rule saying you need to use the same tires front and back. You rarely need more section in front (for road) so 28mm should be fine. That leaves you free to use a larger tire in back where the axle loads are higher, and you want the extra width.
Use of different tires front and back has been SOP in high performance and heavy duty auto and truck applications for decades, and serves well. There's no reason for cyclists to lock themselves out of that option.
This safely pushed the wheel down, and it's been that way ever since. You can't get much more than that because you have to keep the axle and nut (or QR) faces well supported in the flat part of the dropout.
But if 2-3mm is all you need, this is simple enough and works very well.
On some bikes you might also be able to file some away at the front of the crown. Because the front wheel is forward of the crown it comes higher at the front than rear. Filing the crown to follow the rising contour of the wheel can buy you another few millimeters. This will often not work with a caliper brake, since the brake projects forward where the tire is yet higher, and often the tire will touch on the brake while clearing the crown.
Lastly, consider that there's no rule saying you need to use the same tires front and back. You rarely need more section in front (for road) so 28mm should be fine. That leaves you free to use a larger tire in back where the axle loads are higher, and you want the extra width.
Use of different tires front and back has been SOP in high performance and heavy duty auto and truck applications for decades, and serves well. There's no reason for cyclists to lock themselves out of that option.
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FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Last edited by FBinNY; 02-03-14 at 02:47 PM.
#5
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From: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
In any case, widening the rim will increase the overall circumference of the cross section which would increase not decrease the diameter. A simpler option is to carefully shop tires with the biggest actual size that clears, regardless of nominal size. But that seems to be where the OP is already.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#6
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From: Spokane, WA
Bikes: Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520
I would add the spacer as per FB and/or file the bottom of the crown to gain some clearance if its an alloy or steel fork.
#7
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The front tire spins, but has almost zero clearance under the fork crown.
Obviously New fork with longer blades ... Might be a Buy a whole new real 'Fatties fit fine' bike frame ..
with that tight a clearance a stone sticking to the tire on your Gravel Grinders will jam in there tight..
anything else is wishful thinking .. spend , it boosts the economy .
Last edited by fietsbob; 02-03-14 at 03:17 PM.
#8
grind away metal from the under side of the fork crown? replace the fork tips ?
Obviously New fork with longer blades ... Might be a Buy a whole new real 'Fatties fit fine' bike frame ..
with that tight a clearance a stone sticking to the tire on your Gravel Grinders will jam in there tight..
anything else is wishful thinking .. spend , it boosts the economy .
Obviously New fork with longer blades ... Might be a Buy a whole new real 'Fatties fit fine' bike frame ..
with that tight a clearance a stone sticking to the tire on your Gravel Grinders will jam in there tight..
anything else is wishful thinking .. spend , it boosts the economy .
it makes much more personal economic sense
if not macro economic
to get an old ten speed fork designed around 27 inch wheels
which will have ample clearance for 700 x 32 c tires
rather than send a hundred bucks
to be split between a chinese factory and their american distributor
#9
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From: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Whatever you might do the front at the dropouts, you would have to also do to the rear dropouts to keep from changing the head tube angle. Also you would have to watch out for the brake calipers being too short on the new setup. As for taking metal off the underside of the fork crown, the place where all the twisting stresses are concentrated, well, best I can say is I do not think that would be a good idea. This is so dangerous, it is absolutely not funny. Oh hell, yes, yes it is funny.
#10
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From: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
if replacing the fork
it makes much more personal economic sense
if not macro economic
to get an old ten speed fork designed around 27 inch wheels
which will have ample clearance for 700 x 32 c tires
rather than send a hundred bucks
to be split between a chinese factory and their american distributor
it makes much more personal economic sense
if not macro economic
to get an old ten speed fork designed around 27 inch wheels
which will have ample clearance for 700 x 32 c tires
rather than send a hundred bucks
to be split between a chinese factory and their american distributor
#11
you dont have to
if the change in fork length is fairly small
then the change in handling will also be small
also
there is no reason to assume that a small change in geometry and handling
will necessarily be negative
but what you said before about brake reach
is right on the money
no matter what means the op is using to push his wheel further from the crown
#12
Thread Starter
Have bike, will travel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,286
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From: Lake Geneva, WI
Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2
I had the same problem when I set up a track bike for street use about 45 years ago. My solution was to fill the top of the fork slot with 2-3mm of auto body filler, with a short piece cut from a spoke trapped at top dead center both as a gauge and as reinforcement.
This safely pushed the wheel down, and it's been that way ever since. You can't get much more than that because you have to keep the axle and nut (or QR) faces well supported in the flat part of the dropout.
But if 2-3mm is all you need, this is simple enough and works very well.
On some bikes you might also be able to file some away at the front of the crown. Because the front wheel is forward of the crown it comes higher at the front than rear. Filing the crown to follow the rising contour of the wheel can buy you another few millimeters. This will often not work with a caliper brake, since the brake projects forward where the tire is yet higher, and often the tire will touch on the brake while clearing the crown.
Lastly, consider that there's no rule saying you need to use the same tires front and back. You rarely need more section in front (for road) so 28mm should be fine. That leaves you free to use a larger tire in back where the axle loads are higher, and you want the extra width.
Use of different tires front and back has been SOP in high performance and heavy duty auto and truck applications for decades, and serves well. There's no reason for cyclists to lock themselves out of that option.
This safely pushed the wheel down, and it's been that way ever since. You can't get much more than that because you have to keep the axle and nut (or QR) faces well supported in the flat part of the dropout.
But if 2-3mm is all you need, this is simple enough and works very well.
On some bikes you might also be able to file some away at the front of the crown. Because the front wheel is forward of the crown it comes higher at the front than rear. Filing the crown to follow the rising contour of the wheel can buy you another few millimeters. This will often not work with a caliper brake, since the brake projects forward where the tire is yet higher, and often the tire will touch on the brake while clearing the crown.
Lastly, consider that there's no rule saying you need to use the same tires front and back. You rarely need more section in front (for road) so 28mm should be fine. That leaves you free to use a larger tire in back where the axle loads are higher, and you want the extra width.
Use of different tires front and back has been SOP in high performance and heavy duty auto and truck applications for decades, and serves well. There's no reason for cyclists to lock themselves out of that option.
Strangely enough the front brake has plenty of clearance. I'm going to hand file the crown just to remove any flash or unintended material. I'll consider the smaller tire options if that doesn't do it.
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
Last edited by Barrettscv; 02-03-14 at 04:06 PM.
#13
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Although that's a pretty tongue-in-cheek suggestion; probably doable but not easy.
#14
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From: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
well
you dont have to
if the change in fork length is fairly small
then the change in handling will also be small
also
there is no reason to assume that a small change in geometry and handling
will necessarily be negative
but what you said before about brake reach
is right on the money
no matter what means the op is using to push his wheel further from the crown
you dont have to
if the change in fork length is fairly small
then the change in handling will also be small
also
there is no reason to assume that a small change in geometry and handling
will necessarily be negative
but what you said before about brake reach
is right on the money
no matter what means the op is using to push his wheel further from the crown
#15
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Posts: 6,682
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From: Above ground, Walnut Creek, Ca
Bikes: 8 ss bikes, 1 5-speed touring bike
all good advice.
but as i read your post, the front wheel spins freely and the tire does not touch the fork crown. if so, i don't see any problem. as the tire wears there will be more clearance not less.
in the future, i may look at using a tire with a slightly lower profile, or, as has most likely already been mentioned (but i didn't take the time to scour all responses), not mounting the wheel fully into the fork. it can create several millimeters of clearance.
just don't forget, like i did, that you did it and then wonder, like i did, why, after fixing a flat and reinstalling the front wheel fully into the fork, the clearance that i previously enjoyed was now gone.
many track bikes have surprisingly little clearance between fork crown and tire. and, IIRC, dedicated tourists used to buy special contraptions that mounted on the brake bridge to brush off road debris to reduce punctures. or at least, i think that was the reason. you've got a simpler, cleaner, and more efficient one for free.
but as i read your post, the front wheel spins freely and the tire does not touch the fork crown. if so, i don't see any problem. as the tire wears there will be more clearance not less.
in the future, i may look at using a tire with a slightly lower profile, or, as has most likely already been mentioned (but i didn't take the time to scour all responses), not mounting the wheel fully into the fork. it can create several millimeters of clearance.
just don't forget, like i did, that you did it and then wonder, like i did, why, after fixing a flat and reinstalling the front wheel fully into the fork, the clearance that i previously enjoyed was now gone.

many track bikes have surprisingly little clearance between fork crown and tire. and, IIRC, dedicated tourists used to buy special contraptions that mounted on the brake bridge to brush off road debris to reduce punctures. or at least, i think that was the reason. you've got a simpler, cleaner, and more efficient one for free.
Last edited by hueyhoolihan; 02-03-14 at 04:13 PM.
#16
strongly held
but not that strong
it would take a pretty major change
to even come close
to screwing up the handling
fbs idea of using body filler and a peice of spoke
for instance
would bring the front end up 2mm
which could be less than the difference between a new tire and a worn one
#17
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 28,682
Likes: 63
From: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
strongly held
but not that strong
it would take a pretty major change
to even come close
to screwing up the handling
fbs idea of using body filler and a peice of spoke
for instance
would bring the front end up 2mm
which could be less than the difference between a new tire and a worn one
but not that strong
it would take a pretty major change
to even come close
to screwing up the handling
fbs idea of using body filler and a peice of spoke
for instance
would bring the front end up 2mm
which could be less than the difference between a new tire and a worn one
#18
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39,897
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From: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
2mm change in front height vs 1,000mm wheelbase, so we're looking for a change in angle = to one with a sine of .002. This is roughly 1/10 degree, hardly worth thinking about. (I couldn't find a sine table for angles less than 1°)
Anyway, if the OP takes my advice and uses a larger tire in the rear than front, this would change the head angle more. (in the opposite direction). Maybe if he combines both the bike will retain the original geometry.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#20
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
I hope your tongue is firmly in your cheek, and that you're careful not to bite it.
2mm change in front height vs 1,000mm wheelbase, so we're looking for a change in angle = to one with a sine of .002. This is roughly 1/10 degree, hardly worth thinking about. (I couldn't find a sine table for angles less than 1°)
Anyway, if the OP takes my advice and uses a larger tire in the rear than front, this would change the head angle more. (in the opposite direction). Maybe if he combines both the bike will retain the original geometry.
2mm change in front height vs 1,000mm wheelbase, so we're looking for a change in angle = to one with a sine of .002. This is roughly 1/10 degree, hardly worth thinking about. (I couldn't find a sine table for angles less than 1°)
Anyway, if the OP takes my advice and uses a larger tire in the rear than front, this would change the head angle more. (in the opposite direction). Maybe if he combines both the bike will retain the original geometry.
#21
#23
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Have bike, will travel
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From: Lake Geneva, WI
Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2
Thanks'
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
#24
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