byrd48

I'm lacing up my first wheel this weekend. It's a front wheel, so no dish. I've read the Sheldon article as well as a few others and I've trued wheels before. The primary concern I have is, without a spoke tensiometer, knowing how tight to torque the nipples. And also getting it set such that it doesn't shift and come loose in a month or so. I learned last summer when I built up a bike and took a tour shortly thereafter, I ended up having to retighten almost everything from the pedals to the bar end shifters and water bottle holders. Those were no big deal, but with a wheel, it could be a PIA if it starts getting loose. Any tips would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Jon

Reynolds 

You can compare spoke tension by hand with another similar wheel. As for the wheel staying true and tight, follow Sheldon Brown's advice on seating and stress relieving spokes.

lopek77

Also make sure it's round instead of 8 shape Good luck and keep us posted how it went.

zacster

I thought I had my wheel tight but it wasn't even close. I bought the Park TM-1 and having used it for the first time yesterday it just seems like a better way to build wheels, if a little slower. On a new build you can get all the spokes up to an even measured tension and then just true it from there. After truing I found my tension was still even too.

This is one of those tools you don't think you need until you have one. Even if you never plan on building wheels again you should get your hands on one for the one build you do. Buy one and sell it on eBay when you're done (my plan, except I never end up selling anything) use one from a bike coop, borrow one. If you were in the NYC area I'd have you come by to try it here. Jenson has them cheaper than anywhere else.

Myosmith

+1

I'm sure that there are experienced builders out there who can tension a wheel by feel and pluck, but for a novice builder it's not that easy. I've trued and repaired wheels for a while and built my first set without one. The wheels were true both radially and laterally and "felt" good. After riding them a short while I took the wheels to the bike co-op and did a final true and pulled out the tensiometer. I was surprised at how much my tension varied when the wheel ran true and I couldn't tell the difference when stress relieving or plucking the spokes.

I just finished another wheel build using a Park tensiometer and a truing stand (rather than on the bike) for the whole build. The wheels are true to within 1mm radially and less than that laterally with tensions less than +/- 5 kgf. Now if only the weather would clear up on a day I'm off so I can give them a good test.

davidad

You can use the Brandt method. Keep adding tension and stress relieving until the wheel comes out of true. Back off 1/2 turn and retrue and stress relieve.

Reynolds 

^ I heard about that, but it's scary.

lopek77

There may be some smart logic to that, but to me it sounds like a recipe for disaster...

rpenmanparker 

Even worse when you do it. It sucks. Backing off often doesn't fix the potato chip. You often have to back way, way off. It is like starting over again. And then you still don't know where to stop. If you can manage it (buy, beg, borrow), the tensiometer is the way to go. Take the tension up to about 105 kgF for a front or the DS of a rear to 120. Then leave the NDS where it falls when the rim is centered. Best plan.

chriskmurray

If you have a shop you frequent I am sure they would be happy to throw a gauge on your wheel to see where you are on tension after you think you have it there. If they build a lot of wheels they could probably even tell you how many turns all the way around to get it to where it needs to be and then you can bring it back one more time to verify. With that being said, since it sounds like you enjoy doing your own repairs, a Park gauge is cheap and surprisingly good and worth the investment, just just for wheel builds but any time you have to repair as well.

Since this is your first build, make sure to lubricate everything well, both the threads and a light oil on the nipple seat. The oil for the nipple seat is easiest to apply after things are laced but before you start to tension them, just a drop of tri-flow, prolink, etc on the nipple. For the spoke threads, lots of opinions on what is best but thankfully as long as you use something it is probably good enough. My 3 favorites are linseed oil, anti seize for aluminum nipples or wheelsmith spoke prep. I like the spoke prep for how well it works as a lubricant, the mild thread lock can be nice though on rear wheels with enough dish to leave NDS spokes a little lighter on tension than is ideal but still not necessary.

The key to keeping a wheel from loosening up is to make sure tensions are high enough (usually somewhere between 100kgf-120kgf depending on the rim and its use). The other important thing, just as important as proper tension, is properly stress relieving the wheel. My preferred method is in one of the links below. That website is a great resource for new builders and worth poking around there. I have built thousands of wheels with similar methods and have had fantastic results.

Wheel Building Tip No. 4 - How to Pre-stress Your Wheel - Wheel Fanatyk

Wheel Building Tip No. 14 - Set the Spoke Path - Wheel Fanatyk

davidad

Stress Relieving Spokes by Jobst Brandt

onbike 1939

Modern rims are now much more strong than when this was suggested. I'd hesitate using this method nowadays.

davidad

That's not true. Brandt's book was first published in 1982 and in my AWS Handbook of 1972 the alloys available then are the ones used today in bike rims. His method is still valid.

Retro Grouch 

Yeah, but look at the differences in the extrusion sections.

davidad

What differences? The material determines the cross sections of the rims.

FBinNY 

Actually, the design parameters determine the cross section which may then factor into the material choice, but that's irrelevant. JB's method, though not my favorite, is as valid today as it was 30 years ago.

If anything, today's rims are much stiffer (and heavier) than when JB wrote his book, so the risk to the rim is greatly lessened. Back in the day, it wasn't very rare for builders to pretzel a wheel if they got carrier away stress relieving. Today's much stiffer rims make that a rarity now. (the fun is gone).

rpenmanparker 

As far as spoke and nipple lubrication is concerned, Jeremy Parfait of the dearly departed Alchemy recommends grease. I have never found anything that works better than Phil Wood's bearing grease. And that is after trying anti-seize, machine oil, plain Spoke Prep. The grease rocks with or without the Spoke Prep.

fietsbob

if you don't put spoke-1 in the proper rim hole the spokes may cross over the valve stem .*

Then you start over .. (beentheredonethat)

*radial the obvious exception ..

still have 30 year old wheels that are fine , I have never owned one of those spoketension devises ..

useful for demoing the wheel to a Paying Customer , though .. Presentation style , justify your labor fee .




Yea, JB rode Sewups everywhere .. those old school rolled tube rims Needed the double ferrules.


new extruded rims really dont, the die can be engineered to make the wall thicker where the spoke hole is.

Retro Grouch 

You don't think that the profile depths of bicycle rims have changed in the last 30 years? That's crazy.

zacster

I have a pair of wheels with Nisi Laser rims from the early 80s. These were the first "aero" rims, and they look like normal, everyday rims that are made now. Things have changed, a lot.

davidad

Other than carbon fiber the materials used to make the rims is the same. The profiles are a matter of aerodynamics or marketing.

TnNoobie

Can I not buy a front rim already put together, only needing a tube and tire? Or can a warped rim be straightened? I'm looking at a used Raleigh Mtn Scout 24" tires for my son and the front rim is warped. Yes, I'm a complete mechanic noobie to anything other than airing my tires and oiling a chain.

Retro Grouch 

That statement is crazy too.

Before deep section rims a bicycle wheel with 24 spokes was considered pretty wild and up to 48 spokes was fairly common. Now 24 spokes is fairly common and 48 spokes would be considered wild.

Al1943

In bicycle terminology a "rim" is just that, with no hub, spokes, tire or tube. A "wheel" is the rim, spokes, hub, and axle built together.
The ability to straighten a rim depends on how badly the rim is bent and on whether the general condition of the rim is worth the cost.
It is possible to buy a complete wheel from a bike shop. But if the bike is from Walmart or similar a new wheel may cost more than the bike.

Amesja

The Mountain Scout retailed for under $300. A wheel from a bike shop is probably going to cost $50 or more. It might be easier/cheaper to find a different bike, or look for a local bike co-op that might have used 24" wheels.

If the wheel is just slightly out of true a bike shop can probably true it back for you for much less than the cost of a used wheel at your bike shop if the rim itself isn't damaged. It very well may be, and/or a spoke or two may be broke in the wheel.

Be aware that this is a pretty "low end" bike and if it has been used/ridden very much there are probably a lot of issues with it you just haven't noticed. These bikes are not designed to be ridden very much. These entry-level bikes usually get purchased, ridden a few times, then abandoned in the back of a garage until they get thrown out or sold to someone like you. The bike manufacturers know this and build the bikes accordingly as the most important thing to the buyer is the price, not how long it will last. Building a better bike costs money and the consumer isn't willing to pay for that in this price range.