700 x 32c down to 28c and any other considerations???
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
700 x 32c down to 28c and any other considerations???
Long story short,
My C'dale Quick 4 comes w/ Kenda Kwik Trax 700 x 32c and they are a great tire. Very comfy, but at the cost of speed. (No prob, I can appreciate what they're good at).
Best version of the C'dale Quick (carbon 1) uses a Conti Sport Contact in 700 x 28c. I'm assuming I could put those tires on mine too as rims are the same & most tubes are 28/32c compatible anyway. (unless anybody knows if I'd need a different tube to handle a slightly higher psi?)
The Conti's can go 100psi max vs my current Kenda's 85psi max.
Also other suggestions appreciated. (i.e. I know new science says maybe width isn't all to speed and I know folks have a fav tire)
TIA
My C'dale Quick 4 comes w/ Kenda Kwik Trax 700 x 32c and they are a great tire. Very comfy, but at the cost of speed. (No prob, I can appreciate what they're good at).
Best version of the C'dale Quick (carbon 1) uses a Conti Sport Contact in 700 x 28c. I'm assuming I could put those tires on mine too as rims are the same & most tubes are 28/32c compatible anyway. (unless anybody knows if I'd need a different tube to handle a slightly higher psi?)
The Conti's can go 100psi max vs my current Kenda's 85psi max.
Also other suggestions appreciated. (i.e. I know new science says maybe width isn't all to speed and I know folks have a fav tire)
TIA
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,688
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times
in
222 Posts
Tube should be fine, all strength is in the tire anyhow.
I've been quite happy with Conti sport contact on my commuter, but overall favourites are hutchinson top slick followed by a WTB folding slick.
I've been quite happy with Conti sport contact on my commuter, but overall favourites are hutchinson top slick followed by a WTB folding slick.
#3
Have bike, will travel
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 12,284
Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 288 Times
in
158 Posts
They main problem with the Kenda Kwik Trax 700 x 32 is not so much the size, but the construction and design. The Kendra is a low cost, moderate quality tire that the factory installed to meet a price point.
I would consider a nice quality 700x32 slick tire. These offer a great ride quality and provide plenty of speed due to very low rolling resistance. They also have very good flat resistance. I completed a century using these tires last year. These are the perfect tire for road or gravel. Vittoria Voyager Hyper Folding Cross/Hybrid Bicycle Tire : Browse All Products
I would consider a nice quality 700x32 slick tire. These offer a great ride quality and provide plenty of speed due to very low rolling resistance. They also have very good flat resistance. I completed a century using these tires last year. These are the perfect tire for road or gravel. Vittoria Voyager Hyper Folding Cross/Hybrid Bicycle Tire : Browse All Products
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
Last edited by Barrettscv; 04-13-14 at 04:57 AM.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
Performance, comfort, puncture resistance, cost. You can slice up that pie anyway that you want but you can't have all big pieces.
There are a number of factors that affect tire performance. Thin, supple caseings are the biggest and they also improve comfort but at the detriment of puncture resistance and cost. Skinny tires have less frontal area and make it possible to use greater air pressure. More air pressure helps to a point, but too much air pressure makes your whole bike bounce upward over all the little bumps which is an energy and traction loss. At equal air pressure, skinny tires have an adverse affect on the shape of the contact patch which increases rolling resistance. Puncture resistant layers come in various degrees. Thicker = better puncture resistance but less supple tire caseings so performance and comfort will suffer.
Finally, in most cases we're only talking about relatively small incremental differences so don't expect a huge change in performance. The worst tires have about double the rolling resistance of the best tires, but the total amount of rolling resistance drag is relatively small so a big percentage difference doesn't hold you back very much. If your goal is to go faster, work on your position on the bicycle. Once you get over about 15 MPH, the energy required to push your torso through the air exceeds everything else combined.
There are a number of factors that affect tire performance. Thin, supple caseings are the biggest and they also improve comfort but at the detriment of puncture resistance and cost. Skinny tires have less frontal area and make it possible to use greater air pressure. More air pressure helps to a point, but too much air pressure makes your whole bike bounce upward over all the little bumps which is an energy and traction loss. At equal air pressure, skinny tires have an adverse affect on the shape of the contact patch which increases rolling resistance. Puncture resistant layers come in various degrees. Thicker = better puncture resistance but less supple tire caseings so performance and comfort will suffer.
Finally, in most cases we're only talking about relatively small incremental differences so don't expect a huge change in performance. The worst tires have about double the rolling resistance of the best tires, but the total amount of rolling resistance drag is relatively small so a big percentage difference doesn't hold you back very much. If your goal is to go faster, work on your position on the bicycle. Once you get over about 15 MPH, the energy required to push your torso through the air exceeds everything else combined.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Chicago Western 'burbs
Posts: 1,065
Bikes: 1993 NOS Mt Shasta Tempest, Motobecane Fantom Cross CX, Dahon Speed D7, Dahon Vector P8, Bullitt Superfly
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I recently switched out my Kenda Kwick Cross 700cx30 tires for 700x28 Continental Grand Prix 4 Season. I didn't notice any difference in speed.
#6
Banned
My speed remains the same, on various bikes/wheels/tires, because that is what feels right
but enjoy your tire shopping choices .. there are many variables to influence your decision.
but enjoy your tire shopping choices .. there are many variables to influence your decision.
#7
Si Senior
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Naperville, Illinois
Posts: 2,669
Bikes: Too Numerous (not)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
8 Posts
There is growing opinion that bigger tires (the right ones with lightweight supple casing, etc) are not slower than super skinny, high pressure. I have been convinced and now find them MUCH more comfortable. I also feel like their softness makes them less susceptible to flats (not enough mileage yet to declare that with certainty) and I can go for a week long trip and never top them off.
[edit: forgot to make suggestion... Grand Bois tires are way more expensive, but for the hundreds to thousands of miles I might ride them on long trips and tours, the added expense amounts to nickels or pennies per hour. The added comfort is noticeable and worth it to me.]
[edit: forgot to make suggestion... Grand Bois tires are way more expensive, but for the hundreds to thousands of miles I might ride them on long trips and tours, the added expense amounts to nickels or pennies per hour. The added comfort is noticeable and worth it to me.]
Last edited by dbg; 04-13-14 at 10:28 AM.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
My only experience with Kenda tires (700-23) was not good. They delaminated with the tread separating from the casing. One did it just as it wore through the tread but two others did it with relatively low mileage. I've never used them since. I have had excellent experience with Vittoria tires in both 700-23 (Rubino Pro and Rubino Pro Slick) and in 700-28 (Randonneur)
#9
Banned
My Panasonic made jack Brown 33 tires are a Very nice riding supple light comfortable tire , but expensive to buy.
https://www.rivbike.com/product-p/t100-g.htm
'fast' is the work you put into the effort, against air resistance.
https://www.rivbike.com/product-p/t100-g.htm
'fast' is the work you put into the effort, against air resistance.
#10
Really Old Senior Member
Likely, you can go as small as 25mm on that rim if you want.
My hybrid came equipped with 35mmand I even went as low as 23mm, but thought that was pushing things a bit since the rim was very slightly wider than the tire.
My hybrid came equipped with 35mmand I even went as low as 23mm, but thought that was pushing things a bit since the rim was very slightly wider than the tire.
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
And to reiterate, I truly don't have a problem with the Kwik Trax outside of the rolling resistance. And again, at the cost of speed comes confidence & comfort! I've run over darn-near EVERYTHING and nothing has stuck. Zero flats in 2 bikes over lots of miles. And comfort is an understatement. And if you read the reviews at Amazon, despite their price, you'll find lots of happy folks. Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Kenda Kwick Trax Commuter Bicycle Tire with Iron Cap
I wouldn't be opposed to nicer quality 32's but I'd also like to have the *personal* experience of going 28's just so I could know, learn & speak with confidence thereafter.
In between my Quick 4 and a Quick Carbon 1 are other tires like the Kenda Bitumen (Q3) and the Kenda Kwik Roller Sport on up to the Carbon 1. But all of those in 32. Only the Conti Sport Contacts drop to 28 and go onto the top bike in the lineup. (I only give credence to oem's as I'd imagine they at least did a *little* testing before making tire decisions)
I wouldn't be opposed to nicer quality 32's but I'd also like to have the *personal* experience of going 28's just so I could know, learn & speak with confidence thereafter.
In between my Quick 4 and a Quick Carbon 1 are other tires like the Kenda Bitumen (Q3) and the Kenda Kwik Roller Sport on up to the Carbon 1. But all of those in 32. Only the Conti Sport Contacts drop to 28 and go onto the top bike in the lineup. (I only give credence to oem's as I'd imagine they at least did a *little* testing before making tire decisions)
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 371
Bikes: 1983 Trek 620, 2010 Roubaix
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
And to reiterate, I truly don't have a problem with the Kwik Trax outside of the rolling resistance. And again, at the cost of speed comes confidence & comfort! I've run over darn-near EVERYTHING and nothing has stuck. Zero flats in 2 bikes over lots of miles. And comfort is an understatement. And if you read the reviews at Amazon, despite their price, you'll find lots of happy folks. Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Kenda Kwick Trax Commuter Bicycle Tire with Iron Cap
I wouldn't be opposed to nicer quality 32's but I'd also like to have the *personal* experience of going 28's just so I could know, learn & speak with confidence thereafter.
In between my Quick 4 and a Quick Carbon 1 are other tires like the Kenda Bitumen (Q3) and the Kenda Kwik Roller Sport on up to the Carbon 1. But all of those in 32. Only the Conti Sport Contacts drop to 28 and go onto the top bike in the lineup. (I only give credence to oem's as I'd imagine they at least did a *little* testing before making tire decisions)
I wouldn't be opposed to nicer quality 32's but I'd also like to have the *personal* experience of going 28's just so I could know, learn & speak with confidence thereafter.
In between my Quick 4 and a Quick Carbon 1 are other tires like the Kenda Bitumen (Q3) and the Kenda Kwik Roller Sport on up to the Carbon 1. But all of those in 32. Only the Conti Sport Contacts drop to 28 and go onto the top bike in the lineup. (I only give credence to oem's as I'd imagine they at least did a *little* testing before making tire decisions)
I recently went the other way; Conti Gatorskins 28mm to 32mm. On my old trek daily rider.
zero change in speed/performance but significant improvement in ride comfort. Rough roads that used to shake my eyes out are now tolerable, etc.
so mu suggestion is buy some hi-quality 32's and see what a difference that can make... Leave the skinnier tires for your next bike...
either way that Quick is a great bike.
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Indeed the Quick is!!
Assuming you're familiar, I rode Santiago Canyon yesterday & really the only place I was left wanting was on the climbs, although I ride with a guy who rides a Specialized S-works Fulll-Carbon getup. It's nice & totally get that I'll never be able to chase someone like that down, but I wanna try & keep close. I did pretty good on the 2nd climb into Cook's Corner and the decent was a blast but, still wanna do what I can.
I have always said on the "hybrid" forum that 32c is THE PERFECT tire and I still maintain that (solely based on riding a Fuji Absolute 1.4 and thinkin 28c was just a smidge narrow) but I know that 28c still offer grace in the "pinch-flat" department so figured I'd give it a whirl.
However, I wouldn't be opposed to trying Gator skins in 32's just cuz I know that after a bazillion reviews it's definitely a nice tire! (Tyre over the pond, but we know they spell it wrong!)
Assuming you're familiar, I rode Santiago Canyon yesterday & really the only place I was left wanting was on the climbs, although I ride with a guy who rides a Specialized S-works Fulll-Carbon getup. It's nice & totally get that I'll never be able to chase someone like that down, but I wanna try & keep close. I did pretty good on the 2nd climb into Cook's Corner and the decent was a blast but, still wanna do what I can.
I have always said on the "hybrid" forum that 32c is THE PERFECT tire and I still maintain that (solely based on riding a Fuji Absolute 1.4 and thinkin 28c was just a smidge narrow) but I know that 28c still offer grace in the "pinch-flat" department so figured I'd give it a whirl.
However, I wouldn't be opposed to trying Gator skins in 32's just cuz I know that after a bazillion reviews it's definitely a nice tire! (Tyre over the pond, but we know they spell it wrong!)
Last edited by loimpact; 04-15-14 at 07:52 AM.
#14
Constant tinkerer
It is definitely a lot of compromise with tires. I put light-weight racing tires on my commuter for a while in search of more speed. All I got were more flats. After about three flats I said the hell with this and switched back to a heavy tire with a puncture resistant layer.
I've run many different varieties of Kenda tires over the years and never had a problem. Maybe not the greatest tires out there but usually cheap and work well for me.
The other question is the width/pressure debate. Pick a width that is appropriate for your weight, riding style, and road conditions. Then run it at an appropriate pressure (hint: NOT the max PSI listed on the tire. If you're doing that, get a wider tire.)
One last thing: never use anything but slicks when riding exclusively on pavement. Any tread will only create noise and slow you down. Leave tread for off-road.
I've run many different varieties of Kenda tires over the years and never had a problem. Maybe not the greatest tires out there but usually cheap and work well for me.
The other question is the width/pressure debate. Pick a width that is appropriate for your weight, riding style, and road conditions. Then run it at an appropriate pressure (hint: NOT the max PSI listed on the tire. If you're doing that, get a wider tire.)
One last thing: never use anything but slicks when riding exclusively on pavement. Any tread will only create noise and slow you down. Leave tread for off-road.
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Panasonic made jack Brown 33 tires are a Very nice riding supple light comfortable tire , but expensive to buy.
Jack Brown GREEN 700c x 33.333 Light - 10091 - GREEN
'fast' is the work you put into the effort, against air resistance.
Jack Brown GREEN 700c x 33.333 Light - 10091 - GREEN
'fast' is the work you put into the effort, against air resistance.
Roly poly
Ruffy tuffy
Jack Brown
That checkerboard pattern is too cool for words!!! Heck, I'd love to just see the looks on people's faces after seeing them on my bike.
#16
The Improbable Bulk
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
Posts: 8,379
Bikes: Many
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
Just to add to the mix... I like large volume tires for the type of riding that I do, and that may not apply to you, but I have discovered something. I am currently riding on 40mm Kenda Happy Medium Pro tires with 120 TPI casing, and honestly, they are the best riding and fastest tires I have ridden in several years.
What did I learn? Don't shy away from the Kenda name, even if you don't like their low end tires. The fact that they produce a wide range of tires should not reflect poorly on the quality of their higher end tires.
I ride a set of their lower end tires on another bike, and they are just ok, I love my higher end tires.
As a disclaimer, I have no knowledge of Kenda's narrower tires.
What did I learn? Don't shy away from the Kenda name, even if you don't like their low end tires. The fact that they produce a wide range of tires should not reflect poorly on the quality of their higher end tires.
I ride a set of their lower end tires on another bike, and they are just ok, I love my higher end tires.
As a disclaimer, I have no knowledge of Kenda's narrower tires.
__________________
Slow Ride Cyclists of NEPA
People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Slow Ride Cyclists of NEPA
People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
#17
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
#18
Senior Member
I don't see any reason for you to go to a smaller tire unless you tend to ride on consistently smooth roads. I ride 28mm on my go-to road bike, and would ride larger if the frame would take them. Higher-volume tires have fairly minimal speed penalty, and if you're on rough roads, higher volume tires can actually be faster (because their deformation means that less energy is translated into vertical motion of the bike and rider).
I would agree with those recommending minimal tread pattern, and supple casing. These will decrease rolling resistance.
I would agree with those recommending minimal tread pattern, and supple casing. These will decrease rolling resistance.
__________________
"c" is not a unit that measures tire width
"c" is not a unit that measures tire width
#19
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
I'll add this just for kicks. In addition to the improved grip provided by slicks, a big benifit for me is the 100% elimination of the vibration caused by tread. That d d d d d d d d d from even the mildest pattern irks the hell out of me.
#20
Senior Member
Here is a run-down by Jan Heine of Bicycle Quarterly, on some of the "new science" that the OP mentions (much of it conducted by Bicycle Quarterly).
Wide and Fast Tires | Off The Beaten Path
__________________
"c" is not a unit that measures tire width
"c" is not a unit that measures tire width
#21
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
I bet you can't feel this
Here is a run-down by Jan Heine of Bicycle Quarterly, on some of the "new science" that the OP mentions (much of it conducted by Bicycle Quarterly).
Wide and Fast Tires | Off The Beaten Path
Here is a run-down by Jan Heine of Bicycle Quarterly, on some of the "new science" that the OP mentions (much of it conducted by Bicycle Quarterly).
Wide and Fast Tires | Off The Beaten Path
#22
Constant tinkerer
While tread patterns like this are stupid and useless, I will still ride tires like this if I have to because it probably doesn't hurt much. Usually on tubulars. Slick tubulars are hard to find for some reason, and they're expensive, so in some cases I'll take what I can get (if it's a good deal.)
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 9,536
Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 795 Post(s)
Liked 1,796 Times
in
640 Posts
I see no issues you should be able to run pretty much any better 25to34 you want with your current bike and stfuff my personnel recommendation would would be to go with some nice 28,30 or even 32 semi slick touring tires. I have had great luck with Michelin proteks and Contentials. I have a set of Mich proteks that I road for half of year with no flats and great overal performance that show little or no wear only reason I took them off was to put snow tires on for winter. Ended up mounting somenice free used Specialized Amidillos for spring summer hey I'm cheap and they are great tires also.
#24
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: lower mitten
Posts: 1,555
Bikes: With round 700c & 26" wheels
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I don't see any reason for you to go to a smaller tire unless you tend to ride on consistently smooth roads. I ride 28mm on my go-to road bike, and would ride larger if the frame would take them. Higher-volume tires have fairly minimal speed penalty, and if you're on rough roads, higher volume tires can actually be faster (because their deformation means that less energy is translated into vertical motion of the bike and rider).
I would agree with those recommending minimal tread pattern, and supple casing. These will decrease rolling resistance.
I would agree with those recommending minimal tread pattern, and supple casing. These will decrease rolling resistance.
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Below is my response in the "low cost 700x28" thread which I lurked in to see what the OP would decide. I came to the same conclusion and decided to go with Panaracer Paselas as well. Here's my opinion so far........
Easy-on. I replaced my Cannondale Quick 4's Kenda Kwick Trax tires (700x32) with these 700x28 Paselas. (regular not TG, as I wanted the fastest rolling version I could get and most reviews regarded the regulars as just as successful at resisting punctures as the TG's). The tires are sized appropriately and it only took 2 levers to slip off and hands-only to slip on with just a little resistance at the very end but I wouldn't want it any easier.
They don't have a range or max/min or anything other than...."Keep Inflated 105psi" which I thought was interesting. Nevertheless, that's where I put 'em. There's a bit of tread on them which I wish was more like a slick, but no worse than my Kwick Trax and as reviews said they roll fast, I tried to ignore it.
I went on a test ride Friday night and a group ride Saturday morning. First impressions are that there's definitely a slight cost in comfort (at least 28mm@105psi vs 32mm@85psi wise) but still a comfortable tire. I don't know if I can say I felt much speed increase but I definitely felt a "little" better climbing. On my Friday night test ride I pulled 1 more gear coming home than I usually do on my Kwick Trax 32's. Was that size, psi or style??? Or was it all 3?? Or mental?? Or tailwind?? I'm not sure.
My 20 mile group ride included tough hills, speedy descents and rough roads. No flats and they held the road well. For such a cheap tire, I did not go wrong with these, that's for sure.
Easy-on. I replaced my Cannondale Quick 4's Kenda Kwick Trax tires (700x32) with these 700x28 Paselas. (regular not TG, as I wanted the fastest rolling version I could get and most reviews regarded the regulars as just as successful at resisting punctures as the TG's). The tires are sized appropriately and it only took 2 levers to slip off and hands-only to slip on with just a little resistance at the very end but I wouldn't want it any easier.
They don't have a range or max/min or anything other than...."Keep Inflated 105psi" which I thought was interesting. Nevertheless, that's where I put 'em. There's a bit of tread on them which I wish was more like a slick, but no worse than my Kwick Trax and as reviews said they roll fast, I tried to ignore it.
I went on a test ride Friday night and a group ride Saturday morning. First impressions are that there's definitely a slight cost in comfort (at least 28mm@105psi vs 32mm@85psi wise) but still a comfortable tire. I don't know if I can say I felt much speed increase but I definitely felt a "little" better climbing. On my Friday night test ride I pulled 1 more gear coming home than I usually do on my Kwick Trax 32's. Was that size, psi or style??? Or was it all 3?? Or mental?? Or tailwind?? I'm not sure.
My 20 mile group ride included tough hills, speedy descents and rough roads. No flats and they held the road well. For such a cheap tire, I did not go wrong with these, that's for sure.