Which is superior, side or centre pull?
 

I wasn't to change my old Weinmann side pulls on my 80's Pug, any recommendations?

It's not quite so black and white. There were some decent centerpulls. There are some great sidepulls and some awful ones, too.

If you're looking strictly for braking performance and not necessarily period-correctness, dual-pivot sidepulls may be worth a look.

A well set up and maitained one will out preform a poorly dealt with other given the same frame, wheel and cable routing correctness. Andy.

You haven't identified any problems with the side pulls. If set up correctly, the existing brakes should be fine.

You might want to think about getting a better quality brake pad like a kool stop, Amazon.com : Kool Stop Bicycle Brake Pads : Bike Brake Pad Inserts : Sports & Outdoors.

After yesterday evening's ride, performance is paramount, period correctness second. Mid 80's any recommendation?

I genuinely cannot get mine to stay centred despite having referred to my first edition Haynes and other useful tomes. Any ideas?

Disc. Come to the "Dark Side".

I don't know what kind of sidepulls you have. You should put up a thread on this forum with some pics and a description of the problem. The brakes can be centered properly.

The ability to have the pads centered (or really both sides releasing from the rim enough to not rub) is dependent on the caliper spring to be in a position such that both sides of the spring move outward somewhat equally. This spring's rotational position is determined by the center bolt's rotation. The spring goes through the "block" which is secured to the center bolt, where the bolt goes so does the block and then the center portion of the spring. So by rotating the center bolt (and many better brakes will have a wrench fitting to make this easy) so that the spring (arms/pads) are roughly centered then keeping the center bolt in this position tighten it's back nut to trap it where you rotated it.

This is the first step to centering classic single pivot side pull calipers. The second step is to fine tune centering by bending the spring a small bit. Either by placing a punch against the spring JUST as the spring exits the center bolt's "block" and tapping the punch with a hammer. Or by detaching the spring's end from the arm's tab and pulling that side of the spring out and up to increase it's strength. These two methods are somewhat destructive in that you are purposely "damaging" the spring. If done with a crude and heavy hand the results will be worse then when you started. But with an experienced hand are quick and long lasting fine tuning tricks.

The cable routing and how much this effects the caliper's willingness to stay where you center it is another issue to be aware of. If the cable routing/loop shifts (as with rear cables that slide through top tube casing guides as the handle bars are turned) then this loop will pull and push on the cable side of the caliper. You can mimic this by just pulling on the casing and watch the pads move off center. So sometimes you need to trap the casing from moving. Better casing control will make the caliper adjustments longer lasting. Andy.

Expensive side pulls are more rigid than cheap ones ..


Dual pivot side pulls like Tektro (Shimano SRAM, Campag) makes should be better than the cheap side pull single pivot ..

But, well set up with good brake pads ,

stopping from a reasonable rate of speed should be adequate, with what you have ..

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

CLB made some nice sidepulls in the 80's. Usually some on ebay.

Thanks for such a detailed reply Andy, when I referred to my Haynes Bike Book (1994), this describes and shows the wrench fitting which it states can be adjusted using a narrow or cone wrench, however I cannot see this on my set up. I'll take a photo and post it.

As soon as I get home I'll do that, I'd be interested to know exactly what model I have.

If your brakes do not have the flats for adjusting with a cone wrench, then 1 other way is to place the tip of a flat blade screwdriver on the spring near the center of the arm that is too far from the rim. The give the screwdriver a few taps with a hammer until the spring moves enough to center the brake arms. (Same as Andy's "punch" method above). I don't see any downside, other than possibly a tiny scratch on the spring.

New pads, a little tap, and you're good to go.

These are actually shots from the vendor that I bought it from, I have since cleaned her up and put new Lugano tyres and tape on but that's about it, I'll get shots of the rear brake and post later.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=390754http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=390755http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=390756

If by 80's Pug you mean a Peugot, then I believe a nice pair of centerpull Mafac Racers or Mafac 2000s would be period correct, if you can find them on the bay or in the parts bin of an old LBS. I have the 2000s (with drilled levers) and a brake bridge installed on my "winter" bike. Made a huge difference when I installed some KoolStop salmon pads on them.

Yes a Peugeot mid-late 80's, the original eBay photos are posted in the thread, thanks for the recommendations, I'll check the Mafac brake sets out.

These are centered by means of the small nut that can be found within the black plastic cap on the front of the brake. Weinmann made a special tool for this which is going to be difficult if not impossible to find but a crescent wrench should do the trick. You can pop off the black plastic cap with a thin screwdriver. You can pop it back on when you are done. You may have to back off the nut that tightens the brake to the frame (found behind the fork in front for example) a bit to make the proper adjustment. There may also be some flats just behind the brakes that can be used to adjust them. If there are you will need a flat wrench to adjust them but I think the right adjustment is I have described it. In any case, take some more close up pics and put up a new post in the mechanics forum. You'll get some more info that way.

Lose the chicken wings from the brake levers .. new cables and Housing new brake pads
dont over think this ..


By the way if you drop well over 100 bucks per brake (minus the levers) they both are quite good ..

But you are not going to do that ..

and sold them for a Long time after


My 90's Mk2 Brompton was fitted with a, single pivot, Brake.. supplied by CLB.
I put newer Salmon Koolstop pads on it & they worked fine.

new pads
and
new cables and housings cut closer to the correct length
as those white ones are too long
and the way they are clipped together above the stem
seems to be causing a few tight bends that can rob you of stopping power

also

brake levers can be moved up a bit
so tip of the lever is in line with the lower flat of the bar
this will put the levers in better place
to use the hoods as a riding position
and
to apply force to the brakes

and
re wrap the bars properly

wrapping bars from the top
as the seller did before sellingo
looks neat when new
but has a greater tendency to unravel with use
than bars wrapped from the bottom and finished with tape

Centerpulls, IMO, are not as "good" because the extra center cable adds mushiness as the slack must be taken up each time you apply the brakes. With sidepulls, there is just 1 cable.

Thanks bikemig, I have tried that but I neglected to back off the nut behind the fork so I'll give it another go. I'll take some close up's later on and post them.

Got it WL, I have re-wrapped from the top already after cleaning up chrome (rust polished off easily), I'll also be replacing cable and housing and will post when complete.

Point taken, so there is a delay when compared to a side pull?

The system's stiffness is but one aspect that affects the feel and function. Some of the stiffest brakes, WRT the lever pull, I've felt are cheap stamped steel units found on many English 3 speeds. But their leverage leaves much to be desired. Then add in the hard last a lifetime brake blocks (not sure "pads" is the right term:) ) and slick in the rain steel rims...

Back to center pulls- Yes there is a greater chance of more flex in the system, The hanger can bend under cable pressure, the straddle cable gets drawn taught, the arm pivots cab be sloppy. But the leverage factor is often greater too. As I alluded to before a well sorted out center pull system will have great leverage, be stiff enough to not bottom out a lever, have a lot of tire/fender clearance and it's adjustment state will last a long time. But some of the same can be claimed for a side pull system (the bike I'm about to ride has 30+ year old campy NR side pulls that will go for another 30 years). So you picks your poison. Andy.

Start by swapping what appears to be the stock pads for Kool Stops... the fix might be that easy.

no delay

just a slightly softer feel
as the tension increases
and the bends in the wire straighten out

Looking at the pictures you posted I can imagine what those brakes feel like in their current state. You should definitely get new cables and housing, read up on proper cable routing here: Cables

Get some Kool Stop salmon pads too, those ones are toast. If you want to make them feel better take the calipers apart, clean and grease all pivot points. Your brakes will never feel as good as a modern dual pivot set but you can at least get acceptable stopping power from them. I have a similar set of Dia-Compes on an 80s Panasonic and they work great.