Hi Everyone,

I have been a long-time lurker on this forum and decided to post because I may have my first potential rebuild project! Some background on myself: I have a couple of bikes (90s Giant Innova and 1978 Raleigh Super Grand Prix) that I do minor maintenance on (swap out tires/wheels, clean, etc). I'm looking to learn more about bicycle maintenance and I thought a rebuild project would be a good place to start. I have some initial questions before getting started:

1.) Bike is missing tires, rear derailleur and chain, is it still possible to at least make this a 3 gear bike? I see a lot of conversions online for 70s road bikes and they all look like they are single gear. I would prefer to not have a single gear bike because I live in a hilly area. Is this possible with this bike?
2.) Could I get away with using the existing chain rings and just add a new rear derailleur/chain? From doing some research it looks like older bikes tend to have custom components which may make finding replace parts difficult.
3.) This bike has tube shifters, is it possible to move these shifters to the handle bars? Or would this introduce a lot of work?
4.) As far as wheels go, would be able to purchase something like this to get started? Amazon.com : Sta-Tru Silver ST725 36H Rim Rear Wheel (700X25) : Bike Wheels : Sports & Outdoors

Here are some pics:

You should measure the width of the rear dropouts and see what it is....if it's 120mm,you may need to spread the frame some to fit a modern hub (freehub as opposed to freewheel).

I think it came with 27" wheels not 700's...so your brake calipers may/may not reach.

You can just put wheels and a chain on it,if you hunt around for the correct stuff.If 120mm it's going to be 5 speed stuff.If 126mm or so,you can put a freehub on it without much issue.

Based on those cottered cranks, that's a fairly low-end bike. If you want to put the shifters on the handlebars, a set of cheap thumbshifters with steel clamp bands would be the easiest way to do it - the handlebars may be 7/8" diameter or 15/16" diameter, I've seen drop handlebars in both diameters from that era, and any cheap shifters will be sized for 7/8" bars. If they have steel clamp bands you can just bend them out to fit 15/16" bars, though. It wouldn't be worth spending serious amounts of money on bar-end shifters or Retroshift units for a bike that low-end. I'm not saying you shouldn't fix it up though, it'll be perfectly fine as long as light weight isn't a priority - my main bike at the moment is built around a frame I literally pulled out of a junk heap and has stood me in good stead through plenty of use, I am quite the advocate for fixing up what many people would consider useless!

As for the wheels, you have the issue that that bike most likely came with 27" wheels, as stated above. Modern road bike wheels, like the ones you just linked to, are usually 700c, which is a slightly smaller size. The rim will be around 4mm lower at the brake, and you can never be completely sure the brakes on a 27" bike will reach 700c rims without trying it. Some 27" prebuilt wheels do exist, though.

Regarding gears, you could fit a derailleur to the rear of that bike with no issue, although you'd need an adaptor claw, as there's no rear derailleur hanger. Matching components doesn't matter, as it's got friction shifters, so virtually any derailleur will work.

If you want a "3-gear bike" you'd be better off fitting an internally-geared hub, like a Sturmey-Archer AW, but you're unlikely to find one of those laced to a 27" rim, and you'd need to get a matching shifter - using friction shifters with an internally-geared hub is very difficult.

Another issue with that frame is that it was French built, meaning that things like the bottom bracket, headset, stem, bars, even the seatpost will not be easy to replace. If you want to keep the cranks, the bottom bracket would have to be serviced, so you will have to learn how to remove cottered cranks so you can get at the bottom bracket. It could be an interesting project, but before you start buying parts, you should research carefully what you need. There is even a slight possibility that you will need to find French threaded pedals for those cranks, very difficult. So do your homework, find out what you need by checking out the condition of what you already have, then price out the cost of needed parts. Once you know how much it will cost you can decide whether you want to go any farther

Thanks for the great replies! My plan is to fix up this bike using lower-end parts basically as a learning exercise. As long as the bike works in the end, I'll be happy! I'm ok with keeping the shifters on the tube if it means keeping the cost down for now, I was just curious if that was a possibility.

So I measured the rear dropouts and it looks like it is 120mm. So does this mean that the tire was most likely 27"? If so, would purchasing a wheel set like below work?

27 Wheel Aluminum Set With Gumwall Bike Tires Tubes Rim Strips

Also, it sounds like I can fit a 5 gear freewheel? Would something like this work?

Falcon HG Freewheel > Components > Drivetrain > Freewheels | Jenson USA

I'm slowly reading online to catch up with terminology you guys are throwing around :-). Thanks again!

I also found these wheels on ebay:

10 Speed Bicycle Rims Set Vintage 70s Steel Crome Wheels 5 Gear Cluster Included | eBay

Look promising?

looks like old 27 frenchy

looks like you got ajustable brakes on that bike so getting different wheelset should work?

looks fine

Rear dropout spacing has nothing to do with wheel diameter, what it does mean is that you are limited to a 5 speed freewheel. Steel rim wheels have a fatal flaw: if the rims get wet, you lose about 95% of your braking ability. Many of those old bikes will work equally well with either 700c or 27" wheels. In 1972 I had a Peugeot UO8, a bike that is very similar and equipped almost identically to your frame. I could run either 27" or 700c wheels on it. I would not be surprised if yours could too. However, you should not buy either size wheel until you are sure it will work. There have to be lots of good quality used wheels in both sizes hanging around in local bike shops where you could actually try them for size. As I said before, don't start buying stuff until you know everything you need. Your first step should be to overhaul the headset, bottom bracket and all the various parts you already have to see if they can be reused. No point in starting buying parts first only to find out that the bottom bracket is shot and you cannot source replacement parts which would mean a whole new crankset greatly increasing your costs

Rebuilding/upgrading a bike is greatly overrated as a way to learn more about maintenance, moreso when it involves a bike with obsolete equipment. You are also way ahead of yourself as far as being ready for such a project, judging by your questions and terminology (the bike is missing the entire wheels, not "tires"). I like alcjphil's advice - overhaul what's there to see if there's any potential for creating a working bike without a big parts investment, and definitely steer clear of steel wheels. They are only useful if one it recreating a classic bike with original equipment.

I understand that I could probably buy a used bike on craigslist for less than I would spend in parts fixing up this bike and I'm ok with that. I haven't started purchasing any parts yet, I just wanted to gather information on how best to proceed given the state of the bike. I am a bit afraid of purchasing parts that will not end up fitting so that is why I posted here first to get the opinions of others more experienced than I am. There have been some great replies which got me thinking about other ways to get things working.

I like the idea of going with used parts so I did some research and I found that we have a bike co-op close by. I'm planning on cleaning up what I have and taking the bike there to work with the volunteers to see if we can find acceptable replacement parts. I like this idea better than purchasing parts online because I can take the bike with me and see if new rims will fit so I don't purchase something that is incorrectly sized.

The point is not simply that you could purchase a different bike for less (MUCH less), but rather that you could spend a lot of time dealing with one-time issues that will not help you that much in the future.

Going to the co-op and sourcing used parts sounds like a good plan. Again, overhaul the "core" - BB and headset - that must work properly before you start adding parts, and I would advise you to abandon the project if you find a French/Swiss threaded BB and no used substitute (much as I loved my Motobecane, dealing with French parts these days is not worth the hassle except on higher end bikes. You'll not want to keep those rusty cottered cranks but just for general info French threading on pedals is not a problem, as it's very easy to run a standard English tap through a French threaded crank.

Make sure you are working with a volunteer who does not just guess at what will work, and who explains to you the why of procedures, not just the how. "Turn this screw to the right" is not a helpful way to learn derailleur adjustment.

This is solid advice, I think I will hold off on any dis-assembly/cleaning until I find out if I can even get parts. I will report back after I have a chance to source some parts. Thanks for the help everyone!

You have to do the disassembly and overhaul first to find out what parts you need. You getting ahead of yourself thinking about looking for parts before you have determined what parts are necessary

Correct - there's no point in sourcing other parts before you know if the headset or BB is useable. It is typically difficult to determine threading on the BB without disassembly. If it's Swiss or French threading it's going to be extremely difficult to locate good used BB cups. If the cups are OK then you have to determine what traditional (cup/cone) spindle and crankset is compatible with your chainline (you can't just throw on any spindle with a given crank or cog setup). As for the fork/headset, that's another ball of wax, as even if you don't have French threading you have to match stack height and lower cone seat diameter. If it does have French threading it will also have a French diameter stem and often an unusual bar clamp diameter as well.

If your head is spinning with the terminology just in the entry above you will begin to understand my initial statement about the inefficiency of learning about bikes by rebuilding one. At least 95% of people, even those who work on their own bike, will never have to replace a headset, BB or cranset, and when they do it will be on a modern bike with more standard dimensions.

Exactly. You don't want to get part way through the project and then discover that parts you wanted to reuse have to be replaced. Disassembly and overhaul is your first step so that you know what parts are viable and what you have to buy. You don't want to have to abandon a project because of unforeseen costs

Ok I see, so if I dissemble the bike how would I know if a part is broken or won't work? Is there usually a visible crack? So I will start by taking everything apart and inspecting to make sure everything can be cleaned and appears to be in working order. Thanks for the advice, if I'm not sure if a part is viable I'm sure I could a question post here :-).

French bike parts actually are not that difficult to find. If you want to upgrade the cranks to cotterless, you can buy new French cups and bearings from Action for under $15. You would need the spindle and cranks to complete it. The headset could be addressed with parts from a standard threaded headset. The cups (bottom only if possible), bearings, and crown race (if 27.0mm) from the new headset are used with the top race, spacer, top cap of the old headset. You can also buy a new headset from Velo orange if your crown race is 25.4mm. Definitely reuse the stem, bars, seatpost as these are going to be sized differently than modern parts. The 126mm spaced rims should squeeze into the dropouts without too much effort. Any other "problems" can be addressed without too much cost.

The project is definitely doable with lots of research and careful measuring of the parts you have. Sheldon Brown wrote about French bikes, as did BF member Randyjawa on his site Mytenspeeds. I would strongly suggest you read up before you jump in.

While not the most economical way to get a bike, working on French bikes has other rewards. The challenge of learning new things, the pride of saving a bike that will never be made again, and having something different than the average guy can make it worth it. In addition, lots of people love the ride of French bikes, even the lower end ones have decent riding characteristics that other lower bikes don't.

For bottom bracket and headset, examine the surfaces of the bearing races and cones for signs of pitting. If the surfaces are pitted, those parts will have to be replaced. Ball bearings should be replaced, they are inexpensive and not worth inspection. As for the other components, they should be cleaned carefully and lubricated. All the cables are rusted and need replacement. It is just a question of taking everything apart and inspecting everything for signs of excessive wear