How much leeway in spoke length
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Rural Minnesota
Posts: 1,604
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
How much leeway in spoke length
In the past, I've been lucky enough that the required spoke lengths for wheel builds have been close enough (< 2mm) that I could get by using all the same length spokes, which is a good savings for me since I can get a box of 100 at about half the price per spoke that I pay buying them individually from the LBS.
My newest build plan has spokes ranging from 164.3 on the drive side rear to 167.1 on the front. I'll be using double walled rims and brass nipples. Can I get by using the same length spokes? What would be the best spoke length to work with? I'm thinking of just ordering a box of 167s but since I have to order or travel about an hour to get any other spokes, I'm considering just picking up enough 165s for the drive side. Non-drive rear comes out to 165.9 on ProWheelbuilder's online calculator.
Here's another related question. I run my calculations through both ProWheelbuilder and FreeSpoke online calculators and almost always get slightly different lengths, sometimes up to 2mm different. ProWheelbuilder was recommended to me by a wheel building friend and so far it hasn't failed me, but just how big is the acceptable range of spoke lengths? As I always use double walled rims I tend to lean toward the long side as long as there is no risk of running out of threads before achieving the desired tension.
My newest build plan has spokes ranging from 164.3 on the drive side rear to 167.1 on the front. I'll be using double walled rims and brass nipples. Can I get by using the same length spokes? What would be the best spoke length to work with? I'm thinking of just ordering a box of 167s but since I have to order or travel about an hour to get any other spokes, I'm considering just picking up enough 165s for the drive side. Non-drive rear comes out to 165.9 on ProWheelbuilder's online calculator.
Here's another related question. I run my calculations through both ProWheelbuilder and FreeSpoke online calculators and almost always get slightly different lengths, sometimes up to 2mm different. ProWheelbuilder was recommended to me by a wheel building friend and so far it hasn't failed me, but just how big is the acceptable range of spoke lengths? As I always use double walled rims I tend to lean toward the long side as long as there is no risk of running out of threads before achieving the desired tension.
#2
Banned
a bit long is OK, as long as you dont run out of thread . too short & head of nip breaks off .
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,522
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1422 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
5 Posts
They were almost fully tensioned, but not quite when the spoke topped out in the nipple.
I was able to make it work by grinding a slot in the middle of a screwdriver to get the last few turns in.
Kind of a pain in the butt, but I didn't want to wait a week/10 days for another round of spokes.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 9,438
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
I would use 163 or 164 mm on the drive side rear (depending on the type of spoke). Running out of threads is not fun.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
Stop playing yourself:
Sapim Stainless 14G Spoke at Dan's Comp
A quarter per spoke, any size. Includes the nerple. $0.40/spoke if you want DB. Liberate yourself from the tyranny of bike shop prices for spokes.
Sapim Stainless 14G Spoke at Dan's Comp
A quarter per spoke, any size. Includes the nerple. $0.40/spoke if you want DB. Liberate yourself from the tyranny of bike shop prices for spokes.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,689
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5772 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times
in
1,420 Posts
The amount of leeway depends on the thread overlap in the spoke and nipple, and on the type or rim.
You need the spoke to engage the head of the nipple by at least 2mm. That leaves another 2mm or so to the top. When building double wall rims you can let the spoke extend above the top of the nipple with no issues. However, the amount that nipples thread down on spokes varies with the nipple/spoke combination. Some run out of thread and jam within 1mm of the top, others allow overlap of 5m or more.
Also note that when building single wall rims, the tube will be resting on the tops of the nipples, so you can't have spokes protruding.
So the amount of leeway varies from a low of 2mm or so, up to 7mm or so under some conditions.
You need the spoke to engage the head of the nipple by at least 2mm. That leaves another 2mm or so to the top. When building double wall rims you can let the spoke extend above the top of the nipple with no issues. However, the amount that nipples thread down on spokes varies with the nipple/spoke combination. Some run out of thread and jam within 1mm of the top, others allow overlap of 5m or more.
Also note that when building single wall rims, the tube will be resting on the tops of the nipples, so you can't have spokes protruding.
So the amount of leeway varies from a low of 2mm or so, up to 7mm or so under some conditions.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,392
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 27 Times
in
25 Posts
You can file off the ends of spokes that protrude through the nipples in single wall rims. It's not pretty, but nobody will see it. The wheels on my PX10 are like that. They were built in the seventies and are still rolling.
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Rural Minnesota
Posts: 1,604
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
The amount of leeway depends on the thread overlap in the spoke and nipple, and on the type or rim.
You need the spoke to engage the head of the nipple by at least 2mm. That leaves another 2mm or so to the top. When building double wall rims you can let the spoke extend above the top of the nipple with no issues. However, the amount that nipples thread down on spokes varies with the nipple/spoke combination. Some run out of thread and jam within 1mm of the top, others allow overlap of 5m or more.
Also note that when building single wall rims, the tube will be resting on the tops of the nipples, so you can't have spokes protruding.
So the amount of leeway varies from a low of 2mm or so, up to 7mm or so under some conditions.
You need the spoke to engage the head of the nipple by at least 2mm. That leaves another 2mm or so to the top. When building double wall rims you can let the spoke extend above the top of the nipple with no issues. However, the amount that nipples thread down on spokes varies with the nipple/spoke combination. Some run out of thread and jam within 1mm of the top, others allow overlap of 5m or more.
Also note that when building single wall rims, the tube will be resting on the tops of the nipples, so you can't have spokes protruding.
So the amount of leeway varies from a low of 2mm or so, up to 7mm or so under some conditions.
Thanks for the advice. Anyone have thoughts on which is the most accurate online calculator?
Last edited by GravelMN; 09-02-14 at 12:47 PM.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
I use EDD, which is usually a few mm different than prowheelbuilder. I've never run into any discrepancies with what the calculator suggested and what i ended up needing for a wheel build.
So, I'm curious as to where you're getting quality SS spokes for less than a quarter each, including nipples? My usual move is, say I need 36 spokes at 268mm, and 18 at 266mm, plus 18 at 264. I'll get 40x268, and 20 each of the 266 and 264. That'll give me a few extra for "just in case", and it costs me $20 plus shipping. With nerps. I don't know about you, but i regard having an extensive "spoke library" as a dangerous thing, as I'll find myself trying to use the excess spokes to build some wheels, and then i try to find a frame for those wheels.... next thing I know, those extra spokes have snowballed into an extra bike....
So, I'm curious as to where you're getting quality SS spokes for less than a quarter each, including nipples? My usual move is, say I need 36 spokes at 268mm, and 18 at 266mm, plus 18 at 264. I'll get 40x268, and 20 each of the 266 and 264. That'll give me a few extra for "just in case", and it costs me $20 plus shipping. With nerps. I don't know about you, but i regard having an extensive "spoke library" as a dangerous thing, as I'll find myself trying to use the excess spokes to build some wheels, and then i try to find a frame for those wheels.... next thing I know, those extra spokes have snowballed into an extra bike....
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,689
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5772 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times
in
1,420 Posts
... The range on this project is about 3mm so WTH I'll just go with the ones I know I'll need for the front and am 99% sure will work fine for the non-drive back. If they bottom out on the drive side, I'll be making a trip to the LBS.
Thanks for the advice. Anyone have thoughts on which is the most accurate online calculator?
Thanks for the advice. Anyone have thoughts on which is the most accurate online calculator?
As for spoke calculators, they're electronic "calculators" and any will give very consistent results for any combination of entered data. However, there are adjustment factors built into each one's formula, and different calculators will therefore give slightly different results. So the key to getting accurate predictable results is to stay with the caluclator you're used to, and enter data the same way, especially the rim diameter, (ie. at nipple seat, vs. adjusted for desired end of spoke). Once you know how far and in which direction a result needs to be fudged to give you the desired result, it'll be the same for every calculation using the same methods.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Brian7581
Bicycle Mechanics
13
12-17-11 06:00 PM