I'm building a 26" wheelset for a rigid steel mtb that is use primarily for recreational riding on singletrack, state park and other unpaved public bike trails, fire roads, minimum maintenance, etc. The rider is a Clyde at 235#. I would like opinions about the following components and have questions about spokes/pattern:

- Sun Ringle Rhyno Lite Rims 36H

- Deore XT 780 hubs 36H

I'm deciding which spokes I want to use so here are the questions:

How much difference in weight/strength does using 2.0-1.8-2.0 butted spokes like DT Comp really make compared to something like WheelMaster 14g stainless spokes? Do you think a recreational riding Clyde would notice the difference?

Is there any advantage/disadvantage in 4x pattern compared to 3x?

While I want to build a good wheelset, this build is on a fairly tight budget so I'm looking for a good value : performance ratio for the type of riding described.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

For 3 vs 4 cross https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...s-4-cross.html have build quite a few wheels, and have never seen need to any more than 3 cross.

For spokes,prefer double butted over single, lighter & stronger.

For budget, would look at building vs factory/prebuilt, if I hadn't started building wheels back in the 90's before factory wheels came out, wouldn't start now, as it's not cost effective unless you can get parts cheap / wait till their on sale.

Thanks for the advice.

I looked at factory wheels but the most similar I found to what I am thinking of building came as black Rhyno Lites on black Deore 525 (disc) hubs 32H with straight gauge spokes for $152 US for the set. For $183 US I can build with the same rims in silver 36H with silver Deore XT 780 (rim brake and two steps up) hubs and straight gauge spokes. I can go with the butted DT Comps for another $50. I also enjoy building my own wheels so that's a plus.

Any idea just how much lighter the butted spokes are than straight gauge?

+1 on butted vs. plain gauge, especially for a heavy rider on anything but smooth pavement.

With small flange hubs, there's little functional difference 3x vs 4x. If the flanges are larger, the added spoke length can buy a bit of resiliency, which is why 4x/36h was popular BITD when folks were using LF hubs.

If the rider is especially strong, or there's lots of hills, 4x handles torque a bit better because it's a full tangent, but again the difference depends on flange size.

Too many rims to list, but look for a wider box section to handle wider tires better (if the frame allows) plus a bit of depth.

The rest is about the quality of the build. For a clyde, I'd up the rear wheel tension about 10% over what I usually build (if the rim can take it).

The XT780s have a 44.0 flange dia. Do you consider that a large flange?

Rhyno Lites have a 27.4mm outside and 22.0mm inside width. My frame limits me to 2.1" tires but I could squeek a 2.3" on the front. Any idea what the recommended tension is for Rhyno Lites?

See NO reason to build 26's.. tons of them laying around... for next to $$ nothing. Most all riding them aren't hung by the odd broke spoke time to time. Collect some 36H rears.. 235 isn't overweight for 26's snugged up right and round.

Sapim Strong 13/14's are ideal for heavies stressing a wheel with effort. I ran a 24H SSrong rear triplett over 235 for a summer.. that wheel never moved.. both sides at 120 kgf.

I would agree with a wider box-section rim. I would think you could find a suitable pre-built wheel and just retension if you're on a budget.

"... How much difference in weight/strength does using 2.0-1.8-2.0 butted spokes like DT Comp really make compared to something like WheelMaster 14g stainless spokes..."

The straight gauge spokes are about 0.007191g heavier per mm than the double butted spokes... Double butted might save you 2oz on your wheelset.

DB spokes aren't stronger than straight gauge, but they live longer.
A spoke typically breaks in the J bend due to fatigue. The thinner butted section "stretches" a bit under loads, taking up some of the bending that would otherwise be localized at the J bend. Less severe bending at the J bend, equals less fatigue.

Per the DT chart for weight.
64 spokes @ 264mm. You can do the math for 36 spokes.
Straight gauge- Grams
13 = 591
14 = 444
15 = 359
DB- Grams
14/15 = 382
15/16 = 311

I typically build my 32/36 spoke wheels with-
14/15 Rear DS
15/16 everything else.
I weigh about 240, but don't ride on "rough" stuff.

I'd probably get entry level Deore hubs to save a few $.

The Pillar spokes website has actual numbers so that you can compare the strength of various types of spokes. The actual numbers only hold for Pillar spokes but the trends are similar with other brands. The breaking strength of 2.0mm, 2.0/1.8/2.0mm and 2.3/1.8/2.0mm are 270 kgf, 280 kgf and 380 kgf, respectively. The extra 0.3mm of diameter on the triple butted (2.3/1.8/2.0mm) spoke greatly increases the strength of the spoke with only a very small weight penalty.

I've built several wheels with Pillar spokes recently and they are good spokes. The price is much less than other triple butted spokes I've used in the past as well. You can get them in silver or black at Bdop Cycling for $7 for a pack of 8 or $0.88 per spoke. That's a very competitive price.

I see a title of "Wheel Build on a Budget" and then read of XT hubs, db spokes, and a perfectly good pre-built wheelset which costs less than just components for a self-built set of wheels.

I like building wheels, too, but when I dealt with Velocity regarding a warranty rim for my own bike, they offered an awesome EP/warranty coverage deal on a pre-built wheel and I jumped at it...