Bustaknot

I have an old miele I've been rebuilding. I just swapped out the quill stem with a threadless stem adaptor to modernize the bike a little bit. My old stem shifters won't fit on the new stem so I thought I'd move them to the downtube instead of moving them onto the handlebars to still have an old vibe to the bike.

My old shifter bracket won't fit on the tube. I have the nub on the frame to support a metal bracket but the old stem bracket is too small.

Now I heard you should keep everything the same brand. Shimano shifters for a shimano freewheel and derailleur. Is this wrong? It's just what I've gathered from surfing around.

Oddly, my freewheel is a suntour while my shifters and derailleur are shimano. With my suntour freewheel, should I look for suntour shifters and deraileur to replace the old parts? It's a 12-speed road bike, and I don't mind upgrading these parts to something a bit more modern. I'd rather not spend too much too.

I'm cool with ordering parts on eBay. Any advice on this? I'd love to move to indexed shifting but from what I gather, it might be more trouble (and money) then it's worth?

What to do?

Andrew R Stewart 

Most likely the gear system isn't an indexed one. so with friction shifters all sorts of mix and match can and does happen with all playing nice. If budget is a factor then keep to friction. Andy.

RoadGuy

Measure the diameter of the bike's downtube, and go to look on eBay for a set of shifters with clamp-on adapter with a compatible diameter. Pay attention to whether the shifters are friction or index, or both. Left (front downtube shifters) are always friction only. Right (rear downtube shifters) can come as index only, friction only, or index and friction compatible.

If staying with friction, as has been mentioned, you can mix and match brands in most cases with success. If going to index, stay with one brand.

Early Suntour index shifting uses a different varying spacing between the cogs of the rear freewheel (cogs are closer together at one end of the freewheel then the other). Suntour free wheels are also available for non-index systems and other brands of index systems with even spacing between the cogs.

The 1990 Trek 1100 that I bought a couple of weeks ago has Suntour Edge components with a 7-speed flywheel and Suntour index shifting. The cogs of the free wheel have uneven spacing, and it appears that the actual shifters are what control the varying cable pull that dictates the uneven spacing. I replace the wheelset and the rear wheel takes a cassette, so I'm in the process of switching the derailleurs and shifters.

I'm going to be selling off the Suntour Edge 7-speed rear indexing setup with the braze-on downtube shifters, front and rear derailleurs and freewheel if you're interested when I get them all off the bike. Personally, with the exception of Suntour GPX, I prefer Shimano index shifting to Suntour index shifting.

Bustaknot

Interesting. Why the preference? How much would that complete system cost typically? I've got a 6-speed rear freewheel, would a 7 typically fit most bikes or would I be looking at spreading the chain stays?

Bustaknot

Great advice, thanks!

im tempted to go the indexed way but through eBay to get a deal. I guess I'll have to do more research on pricing a system out.

RoadGuy

Going from a 6-speed freewheel to a 7-speed freewheel is a simple matter of unscrewing the old freewheel using the correct tool, and screwing on the new one (the spacing for 6 and 7 speed rear hubs is the same at 126mm). The trick is getting the correct freewheel that works with your shifting system. As already discussed, friction systems are mix and match. However, there are some differences in indexed systems. The Suntour Edge Index system takes specially spaced freewheels as I mentioned in my last post. Shimano indexed systems use equally spaced cogs. All of the friction systems that I remember using had equally spaced freewheel cogs (I think).

You would also probably need to replace your shifters (your existing 6-speed shifters, and derailleurs) might actually work as 7-speed friction parts, but you would have to get a 7-speed freewheel on your existing rear wheel OR buy a new rear wheel made for cassettes and a 7-speed cassette and try using your parts to see if they will work with 7-speeds.

I tried using the Suntour Edge Indexed derailleurs and shifters with 7 and 8-speed Shimano cassettes (and later with a Shimano 8/9 rear derailleur), and while it kinda works, the throws are slightly wrong for smooth shifting across the entire cassette ranges. I did not try friction shifting.

The dropout spacing for 6-space and 7-speeds is compatible. If you want to convert to a wheel with a freehub to be able to use cassettes, you should be able to drop your old 6-speed wheel and install a rear wheel a 7-speed freehub wheel without a problem.

The Suntour GPX indexed system that came on my 89 Schwinn 754 had a Shimano cassette on it with equally spaced cogs when I got it. I liked the GPX group, but I switched to Shimano RX100, because (to be honest) I like the look of RX100, and at the time, I had Shimano groups on my other road bikes, and wanted to stay with one maker, for parts commonality.

I haven't had a bike with a freewheel in twenty years (except for the Trek 1100 I just bought, and it sports new wheels and a 8-speed cassette now). I don't know if new replacement freewheels with the special Suntour cog spacing are available any more (I've never had a bike with the special freewheels, and never went looking for replacements).

I'm thinking that I would try selling the Suntour Edge shifting group (downtube 7-speed braze-on shifters, front and rear derailleurs, and the Suntour 7-speed freewheel) for about $50. Not looking to get rich, just trying to get back some of the some that I'm spending on the new shifting group. So far it's cost me $21 for a 8-speed cassette, $15 for a Shimano 105 RD-5500 rear derailleur, and $7 for a Shimano FD-2303 front derailleur. I still need to buy a 34.9 front clamp-on deraileur adapter ($10), or get another front derailleur with a 34.9 clamp ($20-$40), and 8-speed downtube shifters will will probably cost me about $40 for Shimano R-400s. This does not include the $10 that I spent on a set of New Nashbar wheels with Shimano hubs (8/9 freehub), SS spokes, and Weinmann rims (I got a killer deal, $20 for (2) sets of wheels, and (2) inner tubes), and a new KMC X8.93 chain (old chain was rusty).

Originally I took the rear wheel with 7-speed freewheel off the Trek 1100 because when I got the bike the rear wheel was badly taco'ed. I've trued 100s of wheel as a volunteer for a charity that reconditions bikes and gives them away over the past 25 years or so. I have never seen a wheel that was bent as bad as this one that was salvagable. When I went to take the rear wheel apart to salvage the wheel hub, I found that the spokes were tightened all crazy, and after releasing the tension on the spokes, the rim was actually straight and true. I went back and retensioned the wheel, and found that the wheel could be made straight and true, and the rim was not totaled. I'm planning on selling the wheelset after I get the rear wheel all squared away.

Using a 8/9 spaced rear wheel requires me to gently spread the rear droputs when I install the wheel, but it's so little that you can't even measure it. It made sense to go to 8-speeds from 7-speeds because I was already going to be replacing the shifters, derailleurs, and wheels (to convert to Shimano and cassettes), so upgrading to 8-speeds didn't really cost me any more than staying with 7-speeds. Shimano doesn't make 8-speed cassettes with the cogs I wanted, so I mixed cogs from two cassettes to get the ratios that I wanted. I didn't go with 9-speeds because even though 9-speed derailleurs and cassettes are easier to get (and slightly cheaper than the 8-speed parts are), going to 9-speeds have required me to convert to brifters at an additional cost of $150-$300. Downtube shifters are less expensive, and much more reliable than brifters ever will be.

RoadGuy

I'm pretty sure that Suntour made/makes freewheels with standard spacing, as well as the freewheels with uneven spacing that were used with their early Suntour index shifting systems.

Look at the freewheel and measure the spacing between the cogs. Odds are, you will find that the cogs are evenly spaced (which means that the freewheel meant to work with the Shimano shifting system. If the cogs spacing is uneven, I would expect that the either the Shimano shifter parts or the Suntour freewheel with uneven spacing are not original to the bike, and someone, at sometime, accidentally scrambled the parts not knowing that they were not compatible.

Bustaknot

For $50 I'd be interested in the set. My frame doesn't have the downtube braze-ons, are the brackets out there mostly compatible?

Do you have pics of the set? (I can't seen to find a PM function on this board? Perhaps email would be better if you are interested in selling)