I love steel bikes. My love might be irrational and I might totally fail in the "blind test" (will I ever gonna try that, hmm?) to distinguish riding my beloved red steel Specialized Allez from friends CF bikes. But, anyway, an acquaintance of mine offered to buy his Jamis Eclipse bike, 2011 or 2010 the steel one. We met for a test ride today and I think it fits me quite well.

Now, the problem - dent. I discovered a small indentation on the top of the downtube, close to the BB. The person swears that the bike was never in crash and he can't even fathom how did it get there. It is about 3/4" and very shallow, just an indentation, maybe not even a dent. Sorry, I forgot to snap a photo of it.

So, do you think it would be safe to ride or should I pass on it? If it is safe to ride, what kind of discount can I ask on the frame?

Absolutely not safe, so pass on it.

Thanks for the quick reply. Hmm, I thought downtube was only under tension forces... that is why I decided to ask this question. It is it because dent is on the top of the downtube?

There's the small risk that this might be where a crack forms eventually. But the three bolded words tell the story. Odds are that you won't live long enough to see a failure. Ride the bike, anc every once in a while look down there to see if there's the beginning of a crack.

BTW- it's mistake to think purely about tension and or compression. Tubes are subject to bending moments, that tension one area and compress the other, and torsion which twists one end with respect to the other, which will be produce the greatest stress down near the BB.

Shear stress.

need a pic.

You can tell absolutely ?? Serious ?
I think it's probably fine. Doesn't mean I would buy a bike with a dent, but if my bike got a small dent, I would still ride it.
But it would be nice to have a picture.

Thanks, will get one! I was so letdown by the dent... You know. It is really beautiful bike, red white paint scheme. I think Jamis is not producing 853 bikes anymore - not big enough market. The seller has just graduated and was selling all his stuff before an overseas move.

Again, thank so much for your help! I will take another look at it. It was right at top of downtube, as if something was accidentally dropped there (???) but paint is in a very good condition without a sign of scratch. So I really don't know. Transport mishap?

They still make 853 MTBs, did they really stop making steel roadies?

*runs off to Jamis website*

Dang I guess they just have 631 and 520 touring rigs. The Aurora Elite looks pretty nice, but pretty portly compared to an 853 Eclipse.

Of course not, nobody here can tell at all, and nobody in the world knows "absolutely." Flip a coin, guess, "yes" is as good as "no." My guess is just as valid as yours.

If there is any question, why bother? You already have a Specialized Allez, which is a great steel bike. If you did not already have a road bike, or if you already owned the bike, then your description of the dent sounds totally inconsequential, but you don't need it.

The reason I was looking onto purchasing new "used" bike was that my current is a bit too large for me. Also, Eclipse will be a certain upgrade as it was Jamis high-end line of bicycles, won't it?

Right, but we can do more than toss out guesses at random, and make reasonable assessments based on experience.

Might this frame break? Of course, as might a perfectly good looking frame with a bad braze joint hidden under thee paint. As you say there are no absolutes, but there are likelihoods.

Based on what? You know nothing about the frame in question. At least my (ridiculous) guess will not injure anyone. Will yours?

I'm envisioning in the V where the downtube and seat tube meet. That seems like an odd place for a dent.

Anyway, steel bikes can take a lot of abuse. Mine has a at least a couple of small dents in the top tube that have been there for years.

It is not uncommon for the bikes to have an indentation from the factory near the front derailleur mount.
My chain stays also have a factory indentation for wheel clearance.

Inspect the bike carefully for cracks, bad joints, being out of kilter, whatever. If everything else seems straight and tight, then it my opinion that it will be just fine.

Hmmm....
Just thinking.
Do you have a rear (seat tube) bottle cage on the bike?
Where does the rear bottle sit in the cage?

Based on the OP's careful description of the "dent" --- "It is about 3/4" and very shallow, just an indentation, maybe not even a dent" --- and my years of experience and expertise. As you and I agree, there are no absolutes, and ir might crack. So it's strictly an odds play, but so is bicycling in the first place.

BTW- I've personally suffered a D/T break at the BB, (aluminum frame) with no consequences except having to walk, and witnessed a crashed and buckled D/T le go at the head in slow motion, and again no crash. BITD we all rode compromised steel frames much worse than the OP's including crash buckled D/T which were the most likely to fail, but failures weren't common, and injuries from these failures even rarer.

But, you're right, that no one was ever hurt by not riding a damaged frame, nor an undamaged one either. So we can always just say "don't ride it" or we can make an educated guess of likelihood of failure and/or injury.

There are no guaranties, but that's always true.

Haw! By his own words, you can't tell if the OP even knows the difference between a toptube and a downtube.

Sounds like the location that some workstands clamp the frame. I have one that is foot operated, and a heavy foot on thin walled tubing might cause such a dent.

I don't know why you say that, but in any case, it sounds like he knows what a dent is.

BTW- if you were only guessing (your words "my guess is as good as yours") why would preface the statement with "absolutely"? Actually when I read the post, I took it as tongue in cheek, and was waiting for the offer to scrap it for him.

We don't have to debate this. You offered an opinion (maybe a guess), and I and others offered opinions. The OP is free to draw his own conclusions, and maybe we'll one day find out who was right.

I ride two steel frames with larger dents than that. It wouldn't phase me a bit.

The eclipse was renamed the quest. 4130 w/ claris, 520 w/ sora and 613 with 105. No 853 anymore. It was what, $4k though? That's a lot for a steel ultegra bike. I would've gone custom at that point-since this is steel we're talking about.

FWIW, the Eclipse and Quest coexisted for many years. There was no renaming of the Eclipse. It was 853, the Quest was 631. The Eclipse is gone and the Quest name has apparently been expanded to include some lower spec bikes. Both were nice bikes with better than usual components for the price.

Rule #2 !

No, the Eclipse has been discontinued, period. The Quest is a completely separate model and always has been, and has been noted, co-existed with the Eclipse for many years....different geometry, different tubing, etc. for the two models. To make matters maybe a little more confusing, starting last year the Quest was offered in two models, the Quest Elite and the Quest Comp, one of Reynolds 631, the other of 520.