Oiling Spoke Nipples?
 

I took my front wheel into a local bike shop yesterday to get some new rim tape and a tube. The owner offered to check my wheel while I was there on his park truing stand. He felt like it needed a little tweaking. Before he started turning spokes, he added oil to each one of them. A combination of Tri-Flow and WD40. He went on to say that if I take my wheel to anyone who doesn't do this before adjusting spokes, to run away.

Is this a thing? First I've seen or heard of it.

I use tri-flow when I true a wheel and your LBS is correct. The tiny amount of lube does help and eliminates those lovely cracking and popping sounds...

I use a heavy oil/grease as spoke prep for building to lessen spoke twist during the build and to prevent corrosion later. I can see using a penetrating oil when aligning older wheels since nipple friction may be an issue.

However, I think his run away statement was more by way of self validation than fact. Oiling might help, or it might not be necessary, or even possibly problematic on the left side rear. So a skilled mechanic may elect to use it, or he may not, or he may use it only on one or two nipples that ask for it by creaking.

BTW- any time a mechanic does something and tells me to run away from anyone who doesn't, I'd think about running from him. Skilled mechanics let the work speak for them, rather than looking for ways to make others look bad.

don't know if i get the TFlow and WD mixture thing, although i doubt if the WD makes much difference one way or another. but i might have run away from him, if for no other reason than to make him think about the consequences of making categorical statements to potential customers. you know, shake him up a bit. :lol:

The secret custom blend is what puts the magic in it. It proves that the practician has learned the black arts.

If a wheel comes in, I do a split second evaluation before hitting it with triflow or not: older wheel with dull nipples showing signs of corrosian, esp. aluminum nipples? Oil for sure. Shiny new nipples on a new-ish wheel? Don't bother.

And if someone questioned me about this, claiming some other mechanic said they should run away if I don't oil them, I'd say that I don't deal in absolutes and perhaps they should avoid that particular mechanic. And also, they could have their wheel back to take to that particular mechanic if they want.

I used to have some older Open Pro wheels with the dreaded click. It seemed to help reduce the noise if I oiled the spoke nipples now and then. However, once I overdid it and the oil seeped through to the tube, causing it to flat. So, I would be be cautious about using too much oil.

Bike mechanics are interesting people :)

bikes from factories have dry assembled wheels , hand built there is time to put grease/anti seize on the threads while putting each spoke in .

dry threads got the lube at that re truing moment.


Texas, itself, is an odd place.

It's funny you say that because the bike mechanic in the OP is from Wisconsin, but spent a good amount of time in Seattle.

I don't think any state has a lock on weird :)

I would run away from your current bike mechanic.

I use a compound when I build wheels to do two things.

1.) Prevent oxidation and binding

2.) Keep a medium grip between nipple thread and spoke thread, preventing the spoke from working itself loose and needing to re-true the wheel.

Below is an example of a workable product, on the back wheel i use two different colors, so I don't have to bother mixing short and long spokes.

Lubrication with DW40 and Tri-Flow will remove friction between nipple and spoke. Riding rough asphalt you will be back to the bike-shop soon with loose spokes.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...pshcmjolnx.jpg

I lube the threads with motor oil when building. I like the feel it gives me when tensioning and truing. Many, many, many thousands of miles and nary a loose spoke! Go figure!

Barring rim damage, loose spokes result from insufficient tension, not being lubed.

Tight spokes help, but the non-drive side on the back wheel remains a challenge. If that works for you great.

The newer rims nowadays allow a lot more tension, I started building wheels in the 70's when tight spokes pulled through the rim, so I prefer something which is still the industry standard today.

I have a habit of putting a drop of TriFlow on each nipple when I service my bikes, which might be 2X year. It may well be unnecessary, but my bikes get ridden in rain and put away wet, so I figure it can't hurt.

When building wheels, I use grease on the spoke threads and on the eyelet where the nipple sits. I also have gotten in the habit of holding the spoke when rotating the nipple, to feel for windup, and turning the nipple 1/4 turn more and then backing off that 1/4 turn, in hopes of removing windup. I haven't, so far, had problems with spokes loosening. But my wheels don't see particularly tough duty either. And I mostly build on newer rims, Open Pros being my go-to, so I can use pretty high tension. I have one bike with old, soft Fiamme Ergal rims, and the jury is still out on whether I've been able to build those adequately.

Says the man with a secret custom blend (which I use on my chain). ;)

...I can sorta tell the ones that are gonna need oiling. If I try a couple of adjustments, and get something that is frozen, I usually just go on ahead and oil the whole wheel with Triflow at the nipples, top and bottom. You have to clean it all off before you retape and add the tubes/tires.

...I suspect I've been assembling wheels for about as long as have you. Wheelsmith spoke prep is not "the industry standard" to my knowledge.

It seems to work, is a little pricey, and has been very well marketed. There are still rims that suffer from overtensioning, which are probably better avoided.

Who said Wheelsmith is the industry standard?

Many examples of compounds which will lubricate as well as form a breakable bond. I have used some which are not even bicycle wheel related, but serve the same purpose.

...I think maybe it was you. Regardless, the "industry standard" (assuming there is one) is not the use of some sort of Loctite or Spoke Prep compound.
They mostly seem to work OK, but IMO, and some others who seem to me to be reasonably well informed, it's far from necessary. It just isn't. Solution looking for a problem.

Forgive me, but I am going to http://board.whatisfatmagulsfault.co...unforhills.gifnow.

I have seven wheelsets that I regularly maintain by dropping some oil on the spoke/nipple and the nipple/rim hole interfaces every three months or so. It helps with turning the spokes when you have to true the wheels, but I do it mostly because I live near the ocean. Kinda worried about some kind of sea water corrosion.

I use a mixture of one part Mobil 1 Synthetic 5W/20 Oil and three part Mineral Spirits for this purpose. It works very well.

Oh well what more can I say?

There are two ways to look at this.

1.) Build with oil, or nothing and get your customers back a couple or more times a year to true wheels because eventually they will go out of true due to the odd spoke loosing tension, as it vibrates loose. They will need maintenance. This is the preferred way nowadays as it is more profitable to your business.

2.) Use a compound which lubricates with an easy breakable bond and build the wheel once needing no maintenance until the spokes fatigue and brake, after about 20,000 to 40,000 miles. The customer comes back after 3 to 6 years and you rebuild the whole wheel. This is the honest way, but not preferred as it makes less money.

The old timers who taught me used linseed oil, in the galvanized spoke days and they cut their teeth on building with wooden rims.

This is about the only forum on the Internet that the phrase "oil your nipples" doesn't get a second glance. A debate, yes, but not a second glance.

But why did the phrase get authorship, scare quotes, and first glance from you?

...look, if you want to keep going at this, I'm game for a couple more posts, but I dio have a short attention span, so you can't just repeat the same thing over and over again.

Here's something you might (or might not) want to consider. You seem to think for some reason that a properly tensioned wheel that has oil or grease in the threads of the spoke/nipple interface will loosen because of vibration. I (and I'm not alone in pointing this out to you) have constructed many and various spoked bike wheels, tensioned them to relatively high tensions, and not experienced the problem, as you describe it. So you might want to consider that if your spoke tensions on your finished wheels are inadequate to hold the tensions as built, maybe they are too low.

You will now tell me that you are going by the rim makers recommendations as to tension, and then repeat your point about the non-drive spokes on a dished wheel going to the low side.

All I can tell you is that if your wheels are tensioned so low on those spokes that they will unwind when ridden, you may be able to remedy it with spoke prep or Loctite.

But if those spokes are flexing so much they unwind under riding, they are flexing enough that your customer will doubtless experience premature failure of those spokes because of the fatigue induced by that selfsame flexing. My opinion is that youi are doing no one any favors. my opinion is based on a reasonable appreciation of what's going on in a wheel. I'm sorry that it hurts your feelings, but the fact that i am old does not mean I have not kept up with the technology. i just think you are making some assumptions about what's going on inside the nipples that has no basis in fact. I recall reading in one of Jobst Brandt's rants on this topic that he felt Wheelsmith produced and marketed Spoke prep because it was faster and easier to build wheels with lower tensions. So all your BS about honesty and service is based on a false premise. As is your understanding of the mechanics involved. If the odd spoke is loosening, you are undertensioning your wheels. Sad, but true.



It's long, but if you have a genuine interest in this topic, and are doing this stuff for money, you ought to read it and know about it. Your choice, amigo. No skin here.

...and I'm getting the feeling you might be one of these guys. :twitchy: