unterhausen

I don't believe that the drop in customers meant they went online. Having worked in bike shops in the '70s, I assure you plenty of customers were mail ordering bike parts. People just don't ride. Or rather, the people that didn't ride before don't have any money so they don't ride and don't waste money on bikes they aren't going to use. The vast majority of people that used to come into our bike shop bitd were getting a flat fixed. Funny I don't see that any more.

Amesja

I think you underestimate the technological advances in tires/tubes technology today. Tires are getting better and better with puncture resistance. The rubber has simply gotten loads better, Lots of folks are using slime too, and flats are much more rare, or they can get them home to fix them at their convenience. People are also starting to learn how easy it is to change bike tires. The internet helps too. I don't really know anyone in my riding circles who would go into an LBS to get a flat changed unless they needed a tube. Maybe to get a free use of a pump but most folks I know carry those as well. The only person I know who might take a bike into a shop for a flat is an owner of a cargo bike and hauls her kids around with it. She might do it solely for the convenience although even then, I doubt it. She's a real cyclist and knows how to change a flat. Back when she had a Madsen maybe, as the rear wheel was a PITA to get to. But with the new fiets it's not hard to access the wheels at all.

Money is tight. Paying someone to something you can do yourself for less work than it takes to earn that money in the first place is stupid. Working on bikes is simple work, anyone can learn it. It's not like working on a car or anything hard where you need more skill and knowledge and a lift.

noglider 

I don't know what you guys are talking about. Maybe you are not in an area where cycling is increasing. I worked briefly at bike shops in the summers of 2011 and 2014. Business was brisk, and a lot of it was people bringing in their bikes to have flats fixed.

Amesja

I hope you are right Tom. I have this written all around the inside of my rim, with sharpie marker, directly on the rim tape,

"THIS BIKE IS STOLEN! PLEASE CALL ###-###-####! THIS BIKE IS STOLEN! PLEASE CALL ###-###-####! THIS BIKE IS STOLEN! PLEASE CALL ###-###-####! THIS BIKE IS STOLEN! PLEASE CALL ###-###-####!"



If my bikes ever do walk off I hope the thief takes it into a bike shop to get it fixed if he flats. Maybe that plan will work out. Because if any of my bikes ever are in a bike shop on the stand then it will be because they have been stolen!

RoadGuy

Personally, I think the bike companies are pricing themselves out of existence.

Most people who are interesting getting a bike for their kid/kids, or in getting themselves their first new bike since they grew up are not looking to spend $1000 or more to get an entry level bike. They simply can't afford it.

For the bike companies to survive and expand, they need to sell more bikes to more people, not fewer bikes to fewer people. Who do you think sells more bikes and makes a larger profit, the local Walmart or your local Trek and/or Specialized store?

And who sells more tubes, and makes more money doing it (Walmart at $5-$6 or your local Trek or Specialized store at $10-$15)? If local bike stores are to stay busy and grow, they need bikes of all types that they can sell for a profit at $300, as well as the $1000-$10,000 variety.

Around here (SoCal), LBS are charging $15-$20 to fix a flat on top of $10-$15 for the inner tube. Walmart is $5 for a tube, or I can get (4) tubes from the local Performance Bike store for about $14 (on sale), and change the tube myself in less than 5 minutes. It's a no-brainer for me.

Last year my neighbor needed the tires and tubes replaced on old mountain bike he rides for exercise. The local bike store wanted about $130-$150 for two inexpensive tires, tubes and labor. I found a Seller on CL who sold him new tires and tubes for about $35, and changed them for him in 15 minutes (taking time to do a quick truing). Do you think he's going to go the the local bike store anymore?

fietsbob

One Puts Money back Into circulation in the Local Economy, the other extracts it , and it goes away..

Amesja

Oh, buggy-whips. That's election-time economics.

Amesja

Oh, buggy-whips. That's election-time pandering populist "economics."

fietsbob

Shallow thinking does not get deeper with repetition.

Poonjabby

You bottom feeders crack me up.

noglider 

Waterfront Bicycle Shop in New York is about three blocks from my home. They are brave: they do service, they rent bikes, and they sell parts and accessories, but they do not sell bicycles. Good luck to them. I bet a lot of shops would like to do this, since bikes have the lowest margin in the industry.

Bikeforums has a lot of cyclephiles, as I like to call us. We are do-it-yourself-ers. Not everyone wants to do it themselves. For those people, getting the bottom price is not always the number 1 priority for them. They want it done right, and they want it done fast. This can justify the prices bike shops charge. And bike shops can't afford to charge less. They are not making a killing, by any stretch.

RoadGuy

If business is slow, raising prices is not the way to increase bottom line profit.

In the small shops that are struggling, in the shops I've been to that seem to be slow, I see the salespeople and the mechanic/s standing around with little to do. I don't see foot traffic, so I don't see raising the prices as being a good way to go. If a product (service) is not in demand, raising prices is not the way to go (that has a tendency to drive people away). Is there a waiting period for service, say more than 2-3 days? If not, then I would say that the shop is not busy, and raising price is going to hurt more than help. Are the shop mechanics busy 100% of the time, and there is a waiting period of a week or more? Then I would say that the shop could raise prices without hurting business.

While bike shop margins may be low, the profit margins on computer products are even lower. Gross margins are below 5% on products, and people refuse to pay reasonable prices for competent service. How many dedicated computer stores are thriving in your city?

Increase traffic and volume by whatever means is necessary. Marketing, advertising, competitive pricing, and changing product mix are some ways to try to improve traffic.

Not being in the bike business, I can't tell you where the price point is that would get more people in to fix flats versus fixing the people fixing them themselves. But as I business person (who has run stores for major companies, and founded my own business), I can tell you that I would choose to fix 10 flats a day at $10 a shot, versus fixing say 3 flats a day at $15 a shot. And, I would rather sell 20 tubes a day at $7 a tube than 10 tubes a day at $10 a tube. Every sale you make when you provide good service, and satisfy a customer is a potential future purchase. Fewer sales equals fewer future purchases.

Want to grow a business? Get customers in the store, and make sales at a profit (even if it's a small one). Want to retain customers? Cater to repeat business, don't try to compete on price alone. And know that not all businesses are going to be profitable, or good industries to be in involved in.

lopek77

AWESOME IDEA - I'm stealing it...the idea of course



With way over 2000 stores closed since year 2000, industry is left with less than 4000 specialized/independent bicycle dealers. According to fancy studies and reports, these stores still sell about the same number of bikes in total, as 6000 stores used to. There is a reason why stores are closing...huge cost, not much to be made on a big, bulky item, and not happy customers - sooner or later to go with LIS instead of LBS.
It's hard to believe the numbers from that fancy report/prediction, since reports about online stores and sales are as hard to find as water on Mars. I think retail industry is very positive, or just try to paint a nice, colorful and happy picture for themselves.

My crazy, insane prediction is that internet will win, and the only brick and mortar store that will be left will be Performance Bike or similar to it. They already found the way to be competitive here and there. You can use them as an online store or as a regular store with a service center, and great prices on parts and complete bikes. They also offer the best guarantee in the industry. Parts which are not in stock - takes a day or two to get to the store, and they don't want you to pay for shipping them...so it's not only quick, but also free (shipping wise). They will match prices, and go an extra step to make everyone happy.

I know 2 bicycle stores that opened second location in the last few years...two of the new locations are already closed. We will see less and less stores each year. Very few, best ones will survive for longer, and will close their doors for good.

If any store owner reads that now - go check your Performance Bike store today. Stores are clean, big, well stock, nice employees, can do attitude, quick, great prices, knowledgable...It's everythig every customer is looking for.

lopek77

This is exactly how it supposed to be. Too bad business owners are trying harder to find ten new excuses for every one simple potential fix, instead of take a risk and hope for win. The idea of spending money to make money is too much for most.
If a business can't provide top notch service, sale experience and everything at reasonable price and in a timely matter - let them go down, and help promote and support the next guy who is willing to take an extra step to make us happy, and to stay in business.

Jed19

Right on the money on Performance. I have not been in my local Performance store recently, but I went in there last Thursday to see about purchasing a jersey pocket container for my smartphone. I was shocked to see they had about seven different types and at different price points (including a Forte, their in-house brand). Then it also occured to me that they always have what I am looking for (in between their stores or website) and they always match legitimate prices from elsewhere. What more can a cyclist ask for?

And I have never ever had a bad experience purchasing anything from them. I can't say the same about some of the other highfalutin bicycle stores around here.

Gdogpdx

I think Performance is a step up from a sporting goods store. I wouldn't trust the mechanics with my bikes. I have purchased from them in the past but with so many options where I live i look elsewhere. I do remember when they were only an online retailer like 25 years ago and carried good stuff.

sam_cyclist

I've visited performance stores when out of town. I have to say that I was positively impressed as well. The stores were spacious, clean, with excellent selection and inventory, at outstanding prices.

There was plenty of staff on hand, they were very friendly, and as a nice bonus, had several excellent female staff. (Yeah, I like a little eye candy). They had a huge selection of bikes, although I didn't test ride any.

Performance is going to be around for a long time. I bought quite a bit of stuff from both performance and nashbar during the holiday sales.

I have to say that internet stores like competitivecyclist and jensonusa have been even better shopping experiences.

Bikesdirect gets excellent reviews also.

I have not been terribly impressed by the shipping times or customer service of nashbar. Nashbar is very stubborn about honoring their price match policy, for instance.

The bike shop business model is based upon low profit margins, and very poorly paid employees. It often makes for a tense experience for me as I know I can find a superior price online, but want to support local shops since I love the sport and want local shops to be around to shop at in the future.

CliffordK

It certainly isn't Walmart.
They are out of stock with the sizes I use most of the time (700c, 19/25 or 25/32). They just don't seem to understand that having an empty shelf means no sales, and don't seem to really care either.

I think I've spent $4.99 at Walmart or Fred Meyers for tubes (when they are in stock). $5 at the local co-op. $8 at a small bike shop (I think that was the last purchase in that LBS). $3.33 at Ribble.

Some of the local stores have kids bikes. Some don't. My guess is that the local stores have very tight profit margins on the Chinese kids bikes.

RoadGuy

Walmart like many retail stores, relies heavy on computerized modeling and JIT delivery/stock replenishment for inventory control, and it's impossible for the store they use as a model to set the inventory level to be perfect for every store due to the varying selling conditions at every store. Blame the poor stocking levels on the IT Department at WalMart, and on theft. The IT Department is responsible for the stocking levels in the store. Want the store near you to keep more tubes in stock? You have to talk to the Department Supervisor, and tell him/her what you want to buy, and that seem to be always out of stock. BUT, keep in mind that the Department Supervisor may not have very much control over the computerized stock levels, and is not goign to request a change unless somebody brings the situation to his/her attention. The Department Supervisor can check the store's computer inventory and determine whether the tubes are out of stock for a reason, or if they were stolen. Stolen items don't come off the computerized inventory since they are subtracted by the store POS since they were never scanned at checkout. Also, the store's inventory may not remove items that are being held in the Return Department that are no-longer saleable.

As an experienced Retail Store Manager, and Salesperson with over 40 years retail experience, I can tell you that quality supervisors are invaluable to the success of retail stores, yet with the introduction of computerized inventory control, Store Owner/Operators are less and less willing to pay what competent manager costs, instead they hire place holders for less money that have no idea of how a store should run.

miamijim

We noticed a significant drop in young riders with the increasing popularity of video games. Every Christams we'd have upwards of 100 bikes ready to go by Christmas eve. When I left in 1996 we'd be lucky to have 20 go out for Christmas.

A very good living can be made in the bike buisness if you do it right. When I walk into big 'super stores' I just laugh and think money laundering. I know too much about the buisness to know you can't pay rent on 10,000 sq/ft in one of the nicer neighborhoods without creative financing.

Back in the day I read a stroy about a dealer who sold enough kickstands every year to buy a new Mercedes.

miamijim

30 days wroking as mechanic in a busy store will make that mechanic better than 99.9% of the people on this forum. It reminds me of the people who bash quickie oil change places, "they're hacks, they dont know what they're doing." Um, yes, they do.

It that were true we'd all be hacks.

ClarkinHawaii

These are interesting comments, but I don't really understand them. Please tell more.

CliffordK

However a good computer model for inventory flow should use feedback, and perhaps even seasonal variability. If tubes are stocked once a month, and are sold out in the first week, then the next month they need to order more.

Perhaps part of the problem are customers like me... since the stores are often sold out on the sizes I need, I can buy up to 4 or 5 tubes when I see them, sometimes clean the shelf, then I'll vanish from the market for a few years.

I have no doubt that theft is a problem. They correct the inventory a few times a year with physical inventory, as long as those doing it take the time to make sure they count the correct tubes. But a cyclist carrying a back pack (or purse) could easily snag a couple of tubes.

Stockers in each department should do a daily "empty hook" check independent of the computer inventory. This will also help with overstock items that are hidden away somewhere. I have mentioned to people in Dept stores that they were out of the 700c tubes, and they indicated that they knew it was a problem, but didn't seem concerned about it.

When a checker asks a customer "Did you find what you were looking for"... What do they do when the customer answers NO!!

RoadGuy

I agree that an "empty hook check" is the key to keeping the computerized inventory up to date, and stock on the shelves. But in the modern retail model, store employees are not the only people who stock the shelves, and the store may not even own the inventory. he stores I have run are smaller, and I make a point of doing an empty hook check on different parts of the store each day so I can investigate any empty hooks and figure out whether the level needs to be adjusted. But where I worked for someone else, I can only request an inventory correction and/or level adjustment.

And unfortunately, Cashiers at many businesses are conditioned to greet the customers as they enter the checkout area, and ask if they found everything they wanted, BUT don't actually do anything if the customer applies in the negative. At the stores I have managed, there is a clipboard for the Cashier to note any customer "*****es" so I can investigate any problems that a customer has and work to correct it/them (like investigating the reasons for a empty hook).


I worked at Radio Shack for six years back in the 70s and the 80s (while in college), including several years as a very successful and highly paid Store Manager. Yeah, I know what you may be thinking, highly paid Store Manager, at Radio Shack? The fact of the matter is, Radio Shack used to pay an hourly base to managers (small store managers base pay is not much more than the salespeople he/she supervised), but most of the manager's pay comes from a percentage of the profit of the store. The higher the gross profit percentage is of the store's gross sales, the more the store manager was made. The store manager also received a percentage of the store's sales gain over the past year, and a percentage of any gain in inventory (store's cost of sales was calculated at 54.6% of selling price, and many products we sold cost the store less than that).

The highest profit came from selling "wall stock" parts where the cost was often $.10-$.20 and the items sold for $1-$1.50, yielding an inventory gain of $.30-$.40 on every item sold. My salespeople were always busy hanging wallstock when they weren't busy helping customers, and while many complained constantly about always putting away incoming orders, they never complained about the higher than average sales ticket amounts, and higher than average hourly income that they were making (compared to salespeople in other Radio Shack stores). Radio Shack salespeople were paid a base hourly (minimum wage) draw, against a percentage of each sale that they made. My people made a minimum of triple what other Radio Shack stores' salespeople were taking home. The stores I ran were ranked among the stores with the highest sales gains (over the previous years), and the highest bottomline profit (before and after the store manager bonus was paid). Including my hourly pay, store manager's incentives, and the the gains from the employee stock and investment programs (open to all company employees), I was making over four times what the average Radio Shack Manager was making at the time (while being one of the youngest store managers in the company at 23 years old).

The important lessons that I learned working for Radio Shack are that you can't sell what you don't have, and if what you have is not selling, the price is too high, and you should not be stocking/selling it, if it can't be sold at a price point that you are going to make a profit. Radio Shack went steadily downhill after I left the company (having recently filled for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy), and it appears to me that they violated/ignored the lessons that I was taught there, which contributed to the downfall.

When it comes to the successful operation of any store, quality is a management decision, and quality management is the key. You get what you pay for. Want to have a successful/profitable store? Hire qualified, competent management, pay what it costs to get what the store needs, give them an incentive to succeed, and stay out of the way.

Amesja

I'd love to see some Bike Tube Vending Machines that were out at busy locations that can serve riders 24/7 with bike tubes and other consumables like CO2 cartridges, patch kits, maybe gloves or fancy food Goo -whatever sold enough to make it worth their while. Personally, I don't go through so many tubes. I buy the Sunlite patches in bulk for about $0.09/each and Vulcanizing cement in bulk too. I carry a spare tube with me always, and some peel & stick patches for emergency repairs on the road in case 1 spare tube doesn't cut it on a ride. I patch when I get home and then use that patched tube as my spare. Tubes are nearly immortal until they literally wear out at the stem which takes many thousands of miles.

About the only reason I ever buy new tubes is when I give tubes away to unprepared other riders who are stranded without any means to repair their tires. Not everyone is handy, or thinks ahead. Or thinks at all It seems.

Most all of my bike wrenching on my own bikes is preventative. Rarely do I have to purchase any parts other than consumables like grease, chain oil, chains, cogs/cassettes, brake pads, cables, bearings, tires, and the like. I stock all that stuff as spares in my shop and buy it when I start to get low, not when I need it. Stuff on the bike gets replaced when it starts to show wear or signs of damage that will lead to failure modes before it breaks. I know it's coming way in advance and can order stuff online at my leisure and still replace it with plenty of lead time. But I know that this type of prophylactic care on bikes is the exception and not the rule. Most folks ignore issues, even screaming & grinding parts, until it just won't physically GO any more. Then they are stuck.