Saved From Scrapper, Need help on ID
10-24-17, 05:43 PM
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Saved From Scrapper, Need help on ID
Hi Guys!
Saves this guy from the back of a scrappers pickup today. Anyone able to tell what it was/is? I figured it was worth grabbing from the pump pegs on the top tube.
Weighs in right at/around 5lbs
thanks in advance!!
Jeremy
Saves this guy from the back of a scrappers pickup today. Anyone able to tell what it was/is? I figured it was worth grabbing from the pump pegs on the top tube.
Weighs in right at/around 5lbs
thanks in advance!!
Jeremy
10-25-17, 06:18 AM
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Welcome to the forums. We recently had a thread showing these lugs used on a Kalkhoff but I'm not sure if they were proprietary. Still, if they were standard 2nd party lugs, I'd think the lugs were locally sourced, increasing the probability of it being at least a German brand, if not Kalkhoff.
10-25-17, 08:10 AM
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That stamped brake bridge, plus stamped drop outs, plus no RD hanger mount = basic bike. Some manufacturers added sizzle to their basic offerings by adding interesting lug work.
Free or almost free is always good!
Free or almost free is always good!
10-25-17, 09:08 AM
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I would agree all of the details seem to point to a low end German built frame from the 70's. As presented with no paint and no fork it doesn't have much value $5-10 as scrap or project material.
10-25-17, 09:08 AM
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Thanks for the help! Couldn’t stand to see it head to the scrap pile, plus the guy has some money for a coffee now!
10-25-17, 09:35 AM
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Fun find! Do you have parts so you could build it up? I enjoy trying to see how nice I can make old frames like that.
10-25-17, 01:09 PM
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With the exception of the kickstand plate instead of a chainstay bridge, this frame looks pretty much like a budget Mercier - they used those Nervex stamped dropouts and cable guides and housing stops and the same Bocama model 51 lugs. What's the BB thread? What is the external diameter of the seat tube? It's gaspipe, sure, but potentially fun gaspipe!
Just for fun, compare the fittings - apart from the kickstand plate and the Simplex rear dropouts!
[IMG]
Straightened Raymond by Russ Fitzgerald, on Flickr[/IMG]
Just for fun, compare the fittings - apart from the kickstand plate and the Simplex rear dropouts!
[IMG]
Straightened Raymond by Russ Fitzgerald, on Flickr[/IMG]
10-25-17, 05:35 PM
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Was thinking the same thing, although blue example shown lacks the ESGE chainstay bridge.
Poster has not as yet shown seat stay treatment. This would help to rule in or out some possible ID's.
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Was thinking the same thing, although blue example shown lacks the ESGE chainstay bridge.
Poster has not as yet shown seat stay treatment. This would help to rule in or out some possible ID's.
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10-25-17, 05:50 PM
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I am getting approx 32mm od and 25.4mm id for seat tube opening.
What other pictures could I take to help?
What other pictures could I take to help?
10-26-17, 01:55 PM
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wrt possible Mercier ID -
Mercier has several other badges employed for b-line/economy cycles. Two I recall are Cote D'Azur and Ency. These have no chrome and may well have ESGE chainstay bridges. One feature recalled on those I have seen in person is an inverted u-shaped (both cross section and overall shape) brake bridge made by NERVEX. The subject frame appears to have a Gargatte shell which would be consistent with a French origin. The two badges mentioned were sold in department stores in the U.S. in the sixties and very early seventies.
wrt possible Kalkhoff ID - one feature seen from this manufacturer in this era is a distinctive seat stay attachment with a visible pin/tack connecting the seat stay top to the lug. It may be just a big spot weld but it is quite prominent through the paint on a finished frame. Kalkhoff cycle would not have a RGF shell, as I remember them.
One small point of differentiation between the two proposed ID's is the spot welds. The small dimpled ones we see on the housing stop and guide in the first photo are consistent with a French build. Kalkhoff has large, slightly squarish spot welds by contrast.
Addtional photos - one which would be of help is seat stay attachment.
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wrt possible Mercier ID -
Mercier has several other badges employed for b-line/economy cycles. Two I recall are Cote D'Azur and Ency. These have no chrome and may well have ESGE chainstay bridges. One feature recalled on those I have seen in person is an inverted u-shaped (both cross section and overall shape) brake bridge made by NERVEX. The subject frame appears to have a Gargatte shell which would be consistent with a French origin. The two badges mentioned were sold in department stores in the U.S. in the sixties and very early seventies.
wrt possible Kalkhoff ID - one feature seen from this manufacturer in this era is a distinctive seat stay attachment with a visible pin/tack connecting the seat stay top to the lug. It may be just a big spot weld but it is quite prominent through the paint on a finished frame. Kalkhoff cycle would not have a RGF shell, as I remember them.
One small point of differentiation between the two proposed ID's is the spot welds. The small dimpled ones we see on the housing stop and guide in the first photo are consistent with a French build. Kalkhoff has large, slightly squarish spot welds by contrast.
Addtional photos - one which would be of help is seat stay attachment.
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Last edited by juvela; 10-26-17 at 01:56 PM. Reason: spellin'
