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Italian? Santini Scorpion

Old 08-07-19, 07:53 AM
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pspin
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Italian? Santini Scorpion

I have spent the past few days researching Santini and haven't found a great deal of information. I am hoping this is truly an Italian bike and not from Toronto or Mexico. Would greatly appreciate any information prior to restoring. Would like to restore original as possible yet can't find a single thing on this exact bike.

The frame is Columbus and the parts are all Campagnolo. My assumption being a Columbus frame that the entire thing is Chrome even under the paint which makes it shine more than most. Also the reason for the decals not being in perfect shape besides its age. The Corsa decal is tossing me. Corsa means race in Italian. Yet it seems as if a Santini logo was removed by the looks of it and someone customized it putting Corsa on it instead. Which wouldn't be shocking seeing we all customized our bikes when younger and given the age some kids could have gotten their hands on this at some point.The logo also incorporates the colors of the UCI World Championships.

This bike resembles a Colnago in many ways. Have provided two links directly below to see the similarities.
-How to indentify a Colnago Oval CX ? Cycling Obsession
-How to indentify a Colnago Profil CX (First Edition) ? Cycling Obsession

A few questions I have.
- Would love to know more about the bike in general and manufacture.
- Original catalog photos/description or any photos found.
- Year?
- Original handlebar tape color?
- Is this the original seat?
- Estimated value?





Last edited by pspin; 08-07-19 at 07:55 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-07-19, 06:58 PM
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It appears to be original, what are you going to restore? Smiles, MH
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Old 08-07-19, 08:40 PM
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It needs new handlebar tape which I would like to go with original color assuming it was white or possibly yellow. Then need to replace tubes and tires. Not much else has to be done. Unless the seat isn't original I will replace that as well. I am trying to get more information on the bike because it is the first bike that I can't find anything on. Seeing I plan to sell this to a friend since the frame is too small for me. Yet if it is worth a decent amount I would rethink selling to friend haha. Thanks for your reply.
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Old 08-11-19, 06:12 AM
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"Restoring" a bike like to to "original" is often simply not possible. Bikes of this level are often sold as frame only and the buyer selects what he wants on the bike. So while you might find some Santini catalogs on the internet finding this exact bike may not be possible.

While you pics are quite nice they don't show much frame detail, like the seat lug and the dropouts or the Columbus sticker. From what I see the frame is probably from around '85ish but details of the right dropout might change that. is there a date on the rear derailleur?

How long have you owned this? What did you pay for it? What is actual value is depends on you and your friend. You can look on ebay and see if any Santinni bikes or frames have sold recently and for how much. Otherwise you and your friend will have to come to some agreement based on sales of bikes with a similar frame tubing and Super Record group. If your friend is willing to give you $XXX.00 for it but you think it is worth more then you can sell it on ebay or craigslist but then you need to consider packing and shipping it after waiting maybe months for a buyer.

As to "restoration" and getting the bike ready to sell, it never hurts to give the bike, especially one like this, a complete overhaul before selling. No one wants to spend a lot of money on an old classic and spend a lot of time rehabbing it, they want to ride. new grease in all the bearings, a good coat of wax on the frame, maybe some new cables, clean all the nooks and crannies. If I could find some that were a close match I'd put yellow cables and bartape on it to try and get the decals to pop a bit more. It certainly needs brake hoods and set of decent (or even cheap) 700x25 tires with a tan sidewall will make this bike really stand out.
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Old 08-12-19, 06:54 PM
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Cicli Santini is a shop (that still exists) in Forte dei Marmi that was started in the 60s by Ermanno Santini. They started offering bikes under their own brand in the 1970s and stopped by the beginning of 1990s.

The frames they sold under the Santini brand were built by Gino Vanni who had a shop in Migliarino Pisano, which is just down the coast from Forte dei Marmi.

As there is some variation in style among Santini frames Iíve seen, it is possible that not all the Santini badged frames were built by Vanni, but that's just a guess.

One feature of every Vanni frame Iíve seen are the bottom bracket shell cutouts, the same ones you have on your Santini.




So, what you have there is pretty much a guaranteed Vanni built frame and not something from Toronto or Mexico.


Iím not aware of any Santini catalogs available online, so canít tell you much about the model/year.


As for value - even though Vanni built frames look very well made, both Gino Vanni and the Santini shop are pretty much unknown outside of Italy (and I would say even within Italy), so I wouldnít expect this bike to fetch a high price.

If youíre selling, maybe play up the artisanal aspect of it and you might get more money.
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Old 08-13-19, 03:13 PM
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Greatly appreciate your reply! I am out of town for the week but will send more photos that are saved on computer upon returning home. Thanks
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Old 08-13-19, 08:52 PM
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I really like the detailing on pretty much every component hand done and nearly perfect on each about 20hrs labor unlike the 30 minutes put into most production bikes,. Just a really great bike with a tone of style no real idea on value but I wouldn't sell it for under $1000.

Last edited by zukahn1; 08-13-19 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 08-14-19, 11:14 PM
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Here are some more pics that I have saved on computer. Happy to take more of other specific parts if helpful.


This frame is very light for its time.








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Old 08-15-19, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MauriceMoss View Post
Cicli Santini is a shop (that still exists) in Forte dei Marmi that was started in the 60s by Ermanno Santini. They started offering bikes under their own brand in the 1970s and stopped by the beginning of 1990s.

The frames they sold under the Santini brand were built by Gino Vanni who had a shop in Migliarino Pisano, which is just down the coast from Forte dei Marmi.

As there is some variation in style among Santini frames Iíve seen, it is possible that not all the Santini badged frames were built by Vanni, but that's just a guess.

One feature of every Vanni frame Iíve seen are the bottom bracket shell cutouts, the same ones you have on your Santini.




So, what you have there is pretty much a guaranteed Vanni built frame and not something from Toronto or Mexico.


Iím not aware of any Santini catalogs available online, so canít tell you much about the model/year.


As for value - even though Vanni built frames look very well made, both Gino Vanni and the Santini shop are pretty much unknown outside of Italy (and I would say even within Italy), so I wouldnít expect this bike to fetch a high price.

If youíre selling, maybe play up the artisanal aspect of it and you might get more money.
Just emailed the Santini website you provided. Hope to hear back and will let you know what I find out. Thanks!
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Old 08-15-19, 02:10 AM
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Interesting Read: G Vanni = Giovanni Losa ?
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Old 08-15-19, 12:24 PM
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-----

suggestion -

in the image below it appears something is wonky in the rear.

the first thing to check is the dish of the rear wheel.

if this is fine then proceed to an alignment check of the rear triangle.




-----
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Old 08-16-19, 07:47 PM
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Nice catch based on the amount it's out the spacers/axel is likely reveresed on the rear wheel pretty easy fix just clean it up and flip it when you service the hub.
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Old 08-18-19, 09:50 AM
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Added images to me suggest ‘83. Shifter placement, cable routing.
dont let the earlier dropouts fool you, small builders kept stock around.
I suggest Teflon impregnated shift cables, the rear shift routing is high friction. Especially as it passes into the chainstay.
fun pantographing.
needs hoods, I would find white, white tape and white saddle, of the period. Like a Turbo.
going to be hard to fetch over $1,000 US.
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Old 08-18-19, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Added images to me suggest Ď83. Shifter placement, cable routing.
dont let the earlier dropouts fool you, small builders kept stock around.
I suggest Teflon impregnated shift cables, the rear shift routing is high friction. Especially as it passes into the chainstay.
fun pantographing.
needs hoods, I would find white, white tape and white saddle, of the period. Like a Turbo.
going to be hard to fetch over $1,000 US.
Appreciate the input. Agree with everything you said. Might leave the saddle though even though I agree white would look better.
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Old 08-18-19, 07:36 PM
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Very cool pantographing (engraving) of the frame and components. And one very cool thing: the little black part that adapts the Campy shift levers to that one-bolt top mounted shifter boss not normally used for Campy levers.
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Old 05-10-20, 12:50 PM
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I just found this frame at a shop in Milan, I can grab it for $180. Does anyone think they can ID the tubing? My guess is SL (no rifling), but from eyeing it can anyone differentiate between SL and ELOS? I sure canít.

Any thoughts appreciated!








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Old 05-10-20, 02:17 PM
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I want to know what the heck an Italian bike is doing with all those shamrocks??? lol
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Old 05-11-20, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kross57 View Post
I want to know what the heck an Italian bike is doing with all those shamrocks??? lol
good question! I think I got an answer on the steel, SLX in the fork and SL for the frame. Is that a standard combo?
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