palmettoking

I wasn't sure whether or not to post this in the main forum or in here as this is a ID/value question. Is this bike worth 40 or 50 bucks and if so, what model is it? He originally had it listed as a 10 speed but now it's listed as a 14 speed. I can't find much info about 14 speed Raleighs. It does a have a Brooks saddle, albeit somewhat worn.
https://greenville.craigslist.org/bik/1769999430.html

desconhecido 

The Raleigh experts will probably show up shortly, but I'll take a stab and say that it looks like a Grand Sport. It appears to me that it might have the wrap around seat stay fitting at the seat lug and the only bikes that I've seen that on are Raleigh Grand Sports and Falcons. It's not a Falcon so it looks to me like it's likely a Grand Sport -- again, I'm not an expert.

Judging from the clamp on fittings, I'd guess that the bike is either from the early 70s or from the 60s. It's my guess that by the late 70s the brake cable housing would connect to brazed fittings on the top tube rather than the clamps. The seat looks like it might be a B15 rather than a B17 (had a Falcon with a B15) which also would point to the early 70s, I think. Big butt spoke protector on the rear would, in my guess, also point to the early 70s rather than the 60s. But of course, the spoke protector and rear wheel may not be original.

If the thing has a 7-speed rear, I doubt that it is original. That bike originally had a 5-speed rear, I think there's little doubt. Also, I doubt that it's 26" wheels -- probably 27"

Looks to me lit it's priced about right, assuming the frame is in good shape. [joke] Insert obligatory bent fork comment here.[/joke] I think if you can get it for between $40 and $60 somewhere that for a total of $100 and some work you can have yourself a nice, very cool bike. I think you're getting down to about the rock bottom price for a bike with any value at all. Depending on the components, it might be worth more -- apparently some of the Grand Sports had some Campy stuff.

Check out the Harris Cycle stuff on retro-Raleighs: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/

cudak888 

Looks like a Gran Sport. Not a high-end machine, but a very nice, entry-level '60s roadbike, and definitely worth the $60, if not $150+.

-Kurt

desconhecido 

Yes, yes, Gran Sport, not Grand Sport. Hope the spelling Nazi doesn't come after me again. And, the more I think about it the more it seems like 60s to me as opposed to early 70s. Size appears to be the small one -- about 21" or 21 1/2".

EjustE

That looks about a 21.5 inch. And for that price, you are paying for the fenders and maybe half the saddle. Consider the rest of the bike free.

palmettoking

How are these bikes sized? He said the frame was 23". I know how MT bikes are sized, so are road bikes done the same way? Thanks for all the help ya'll have given me so far

cb400bill

Road frames typically are measured two ways.

1. Center of crank to top of seat tube.

2. Center of crank to middle of top tube.

auchencrow

If it's a Grand Sport (pictured left, below) jump on it. These were 23 lb bikes with Reynolds 531 butted tubes/forks/stays.

I believe though it is an early 70's GP with a 7spd upgrade.

Still worth jumping on, with the Brooks B15 and alloy fenders).

rhm

Yeah, late 60's Grand Prix (judging by the seat stay treatment) or Record (judging by the color scheme and alloy mudguards) looks about right to me, too. I'm a bit troubled by the cable clamps and brake stop mounted on the seat post bolt; I thought they'd be brazed on on either Grand Prix or Record. Maybe, just maybe, it matches this pic:


I wouldn't expect that saddle to be worth much; looks pretty far gone to me. The fenders, though, may be very nice.

I'm more inclined to believe the completely original claim than the 14 speed or 26" claims (you can't have 'em all). Probably a ten speed with 27" wheels.

cudak888 

The '60s Gran Sports weren't 531. Could be a '60s Record as well; photo correlates with the photos. One way or another, it's a lower-end machine, but a nice looking one. It's not so much a matter of price as it is a matter of taste, in this case.

-Kurt

Picchio Special

Fascism has nothing to do with it: The "Gran Sport" and "Grand Sports" are different models.

auchencrow

Sharp eyes there rhm ... Indeed the rear brake cable hanger looks like the one on my gray Record pictured above - but then what happened to the brazed-on hanger? The crank looks like it could pass as GP or Record too.

Must be a "Gran-cord".

cehowardGS

Sheesh, IMO, the Brooks saddle is worth the $60!!

IMO, you better scoop that up before somebody scoops you. Good deals don't last long, they go quickly!!

EjustE

look at the seat cluster:



Wrap around seat stays...

Look at the crank:




methinks pretty close to this '62: (frankened a tad)



Could also be a mid-late 60s Carlton

auchencrow

The three-legged steel cottered crank (vs. oval hole steel cottered crank) makes me think its a late 60's/70's issue .

The larger diameter dork disk is also consistent with the catalogs of the latter era also, though I'll be darned if I know what it is: (The wrap around stays would normally be accompanied by brazed-on cable guides and brake hanger.)

Will someone please buy this bike and report back here?

Esteban32696

Either way,,,,,, either model,,,,, jump on it !

EjustE

+1 on the last part

As far as the dork disc goes, I suspect that it came with the wheelset the PO added to the bike. Bike listed as '14 sp' so the dork disc is 80s

desconhecido 

The ad is confusing. It says it's 14-speed, late 70s, and 26", and all original. Unless it's somes sort of Sprite, it's not 26" and not late 70s. If it is 14-speed, it's not original. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody didn't tell the seller that to determine the number of speeds, count up the number of sprockets and multiply by two.

The large spoke protector looks like the one that came on the Supercourse MK II bicycles around 1975. -- those had five-speed freewheels and were 27". Clearly, it's not a SC MKII -- just noting that the wheel could be from one. But, of course, the bike's "original" so that can't be.

I can't find a clear picture of any Raleigh from the 70s with cable housing clamped to the top tube. Catalog shots of some Sprites look like they may have been without brazed guides but it's not clear and those had IGHs. Later Sprites with freewheels all seem to show brazed guides. Also, I doubt if a Sprite would have had a B15 (though it could have been added.)

About that B15 (if that's what it is). Why would it be worth much -- looks like the leather has torn from one or more rivets. Doesn't appear to be a serviceable saddle -- is it worth something just because it's a 35-40 yo Brooks leather saddle?

++ on wishing for better pictures and that somebody buys it and explains what it is. As does everyone else, it seems, I think it's worth $60 or more.

Esteban32696

" He who hesitates,,,, has lost !"

Go on over to Liberty & buy that thang !

wrk101

+1 Buy now, ponder later.

palmettoking

I went over and looked at it yesterday evening. It was disappointing to say the least. Lots of rust, cracked plastic etc. If I already had a bike, and I had more time, money, know how to restore this one, I would've jumped on it. I offered him 20, but he said 35 was as low as he could go.

EjustE

That saddle alone is worth about $35...

wrk101

I don't blame you. Unless you have the time/space/tools/and interest, dealing with rough projects can be a lot of work. I picked up too many rough projects in the last year. As flips go, IMHO, its a lot more productive to pay more and get a bike with less issues. That seat looks shot to me, but maybe it looked better in person. While you can make out OK parting out such projects, often many of the components are in really poor shape, so even parting out can be a struggle.

I've learned my lesson (maybe), and my last eight pickups were bikes in better shape. I am still dealing with quite a backlog of rough bikes. Some I will just salvage a few parts off them, and then donate them off.

And since you need something to ride, more reason to get one that is in close to ready to ride condition (and without tools, nothing wrong with getting a ready to ride bike).

If you don't have the tools and time, a good deal on a project like this one can rapidly become a bad deal. If you take it to a shop to have all of the work done, the cost will very likely exceed the value of the bike when you are done.

Happy hunting!

cehowardGS

Dam, that Brooks was just begging to be ridden.

desconhecido 

Too bad it didn't work out. I think for $35 you'd have gotten a bike with a lot of potential for just about the lowest possible price. I agree totally, though, that if working on bikes in not something you want to do, or are not prepared to do at the present time, it has the potential to be expensive. It has the capacity to be expensive even if you do have the inclination if you have a credit card and access to the internet where you can find all the stuff you need a mere shopping cart away.

Bet I get a Christmas card from Niagara this year.