Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage > Classic and Vintage Sales
Reload this Page >

60cm Ellis-Briggs frameset + extras (ISSUE WITH FORK)

Notices
Classic and Vintage Sales Private Sales Only, no online storefronts. All prices must be quoted, we are not an auction site.

60cm Ellis-Briggs frameset + extras (ISSUE WITH FORK)

Old 02-13-23, 10:00 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
60cm Ellis-Briggs frameset + extras (ISSUE WITH FORK)

Greetings!


I acquired and imported this frameset from the UK via an eBay seller from the estate of the original owner this past October. My intention was to use this until my custom road frame was ready in 2023. Ellis-Briggs frames are very rare here in the States when compared to other smaller UK marques, such as Holdsworth or Mercian. The threadless fork and 130mm rear spacing means that this frameset is ready for a fully modern build. Max tire clearance front and rear is 28c. One other thing to note is that the FD braze-on is mounted a little lower than usual for compact cranksets, so it's perfect for a ca. 50t to 46t outer chainring.



Unfortunately, this frameset has turned into a bit of a saga. The eBay seller provided the wrong top tube measurement; I offered to accept a partial refund to avoid the hassle of sending it back to the UK, anticipating that I would not have an issue finding a home for this beautiful frameset. About a week later I noticed something altogether different: namely, that the fork crown was improperly drilled seemingly from the workshop! As you will see, the front hole for inserting the brake caliper bolt was drilled off-center. The seller refused to offer a full refund, and eBay was no help, either. So, here we are. What's interesting is that the original owner apparently rode the bike like this, but the brake-pad shoes need to be toed-in at a crooked angle for this to work.



UPDATE: Since originally listing this, I took the frameset to framebuilder friend. After some discussion, including drilling out the crown and pressing in an adapter, we decided on a minimalistic approach: he filed the hole on the front of the crown towards the centerpoint with a Dremel and a 6mm bit. This was done just enough to allow the recessed nut to center and for the caliper bolt to now pass straight through the crown, resulting in a perfect alignment with the dropouts and wheel axle. Once the recessed nut is fully torqued there is no lateral play in the caliper whatsoever. For the first time in its life, the brake caliper sits straight in the fork crown!! Including pictures detailing the before and after, as well as caliper alignment relative to the wheel.



Measurements:

TT: 58 cm (c-c)

ST: 61 cm (c-t)

HT: 20 cm.



Included in sale are frame, fork, Stronglight 1" headset, 1" spacers and 1-1/8" threadless adapter.



(From original seller)



This frameset was ordered on 18 September 1992. Hand-built in Shipley with Reynolds 531c tubing, Columbus dropouts, Cinelli BB and fork crown.

Frame Number 6306.

24 inch 531C with Columbus drop outs.

73/73 10 3/4 B/B 1 1/2 FIR 16" R/E

Cinelli Spoiler Shell

2 sets T.A. bottle bosses

Twin Campagnolo lever bosses

Cinelli SCA fork crown

Wrapover seat stays

Columbus ends (no eyes)

8-speed rear end (130mm spacing)

Pump pip head tube

Chain peg

Internal B/Eyes TT L/H side

Clearance for Ultegra Shallow A/K

'Flame Ruby' finish

Pick lugs and cut outs gold

E/B transfers white full set vertical on S/T

Chrome complete forks, rear dropouts and R/H chainstay



$279 + shipping



Thanks for looking!
















Best view of the off-center hole!

Last edited by heidelbergensis; 03-07-23 at 09:17 AM.
heidelbergensis is offline  
Old 02-13-23, 10:01 PM
  #2  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
Here are some more pics:





heidelbergensis is offline  
Likes For heidelbergensis:
Old 02-13-23, 11:03 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Burien WA
Posts: 525

Bikes: Cannondale Synapse, LeMond Victoire, Bianchi Campione d'Italia, Kona Hei Hei, Ritchey Ultra, Schwinn "Paramount" PDG, '83 Trek 640

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked 267 Times in 174 Posts
I've clicked on this one too many times in both eBay and on Craigslist. I wish it were just a touch bigger. The opposite of yourself, I guess!
mhespenheide is offline  
Old 02-13-23, 11:21 PM
  #4  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
Hey! Well, I appreciate the sentiment and the clicks regardless. And who knows, maybe it will have grown if I remeasure it!!
heidelbergensis is offline  
Old 02-13-23, 11:50 PM
  #5  
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,409

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 4,100 Times in 2,015 Posts
Just putting this out there: It is possible to fix that fork without paint damage with a small kludge: The existing hole should be currently 6mm. If it's offset no more than 2mm, you could file it open until the hole is centered, then properly drill it out to 8mm. Then press-fit a stainless 8mm tube in there with a 6mm ID - problem solved.

It's basically the same fix as undoing a recessed brake modification, only a bit more tedious because you have to bore out the hole perfectly so that the bit centers itself when it's increased to 8mm.

-Kurt
__________________












cudak888 is offline  
Old 02-14-23, 11:58 AM
  #6  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888
Just putting this out there: It is possible to fix that fork without paint damage with a small kludge: The existing hole should be currently 6mm. If it's offset no more than 2mm, you could file it open until the hole is centered, then properly drill it out to 8mm. Then press-fit a stainless 8mm tube in there with a 6mm ID - problem solved.

It's basically the same fix as undoing a recessed brake modification, only a bit more tedious because you have to bore out the hole perfectly so that the bit centers itself when it's increased to 8mm.

-Kurt
Thanks Kurt! I hadn't thought of that (and clearly the local builder hadn't, either - though their imperative is of course to also make money). But that is a welcome development! I still would like to sell the frameset, so I would leave that open to whoever would be interested inbuying it.

Best regards,
Mike
heidelbergensis is offline  
Likes For heidelbergensis:
Old 02-15-23, 04:05 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 5,743

Bikes: many

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1395 Post(s)
Liked 1,231 Times in 689 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888
Just putting this out there: It is possible to fix that fork without paint damage with a small kludge...
​​
Ooh, good suggestion! I have the same problem with my Atala, but it's fully chromed, making the plug-and-redrill option much more challenging. Inserting a sleeve should be doable, hopefully with minimal damage to the chrome.
__________________
Monti Special
smontanaro is offline  
Likes For smontanaro:
Old 02-15-23, 09:09 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Mr. 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,329
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1080 Post(s)
Liked 1,584 Times in 892 Posts
I would just file it so that the caliper can be centered, plenty of medal there. Maybe put some epoxy to make round but that shouldn't make a difference, a star washer will keep it in place when the brake is installed.
Mr. 66 is offline  
Old 02-17-23, 12:54 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: So Cal, for now
Posts: 2,444

Bikes: 1975 Bob Jackson - Nuovo Record, Brooks Pro, Clips & Straps

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked 767 Times in 436 Posts
That frame is gorgeous.
Bad Lag is offline  
Old 02-18-23, 01:24 PM
  #10  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
Yeah, I hope someone here on BF will take it off my hands, as it doesn't quite fit me!
heidelbergensis is offline  
Old 02-18-23, 04:43 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,493

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 260 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4302 Post(s)
Liked 5,749 Times in 3,348 Posts
Originally Posted by heidelbergensis
Thanks Kurt! I hadn't thought of that (and clearly the local builder hadn't, either - though their imperative is of course to also make money). But that is a welcome development! I still would like to sell the frameset, so I would leave that open to whoever would be interested inbuying it.

Best regards,
Mike
I would encourage you to sort it out to help facilitate a sale. Probably could be done with a file and patience.

Unless a buyer like Kurt or myself and many others here comes along, this will put many off for fear of the unknown.

Even with the disclosure it becomes a bargaining chip that sullys this beautiful frame and likely hampers the sale.
merziac is offline  
Likes For merziac:
Old 02-26-23, 10:20 PM
  #12  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
Quick update here - will be taking to another framebuilder friend locally to see how feasible redrilling the fork crown will be as per cudak888 's guidance above! That is, feasible for my friend. If it's outside his wheelhouse, then I'll be exploring other options!
heidelbergensis is offline  
Likes For heidelbergensis:
Old 02-27-23, 02:49 PM
  #13  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
Update: so, we opted for the most minimal approach here, which was to file out the hole with a Dremel towards the centerpoint:


This was done just enough to allow the recessed nut to center for the caliper bolt to pass straight through the crown, resulting in a perfect alignment with the dropouts and wheel axle:

Et voila! For the first time in its life, the brake caliper sits straight in the fork crown!! While there is some room to the side at the drilled-out opening on the front of the crown, once the recessed nut is fully torqued there is no lateral play in the caliper.

This was our minimal and low-fi fix to make the fork rideable. The next step would be to drill out the hole and install an insert/kludge.
heidelbergensis is offline  
Likes For heidelbergensis:
Old 02-27-23, 03:06 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,493

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 260 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4302 Post(s)
Liked 5,749 Times in 3,348 Posts
Originally Posted by heidelbergensis
Update: so, we opted for the most minimal approach here, which was to file out the hole with a Dremel towards the centerpoint:


This was done just enough to allow the recessed nut to center for the caliper bolt to pass straight through the crown, resulting in a perfect alignment with the dropouts and wheel axle:

This was our minimal and low-fi fix to make the fork rideable. The next step would be to drill out the hole and install an insert/kludge.


There's still nothing stopping from using a piece of tubing for a long bushing to backstop this even more, especially if this decides to work against the offset even more now that it has some more play in the equation.
merziac is offline  
Old 03-01-23, 08:48 PM
  #15  
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,409

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 4,100 Times in 2,015 Posts
Bravo! All's well that ends well.

-Kurt
__________________












cudak888 is offline  
Old 03-03-23, 10:31 AM
  #16  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
Bump and price drop: $275 + shipping
heidelbergensis is offline  
Old 03-06-23, 10:40 AM
  #17  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
Bump! If you're reading this and interested, make me an offer!
heidelbergensis is offline  
Old 03-06-23, 03:42 PM
  #18  
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,906

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2240 Post(s)
Liked 2,681 Times in 1,719 Posts
Originally Posted by heidelbergensis
Bump! If you're reading this and interested, make me an offer!
If it was 56 or 57 it would have arrived to my door anyway. Something about that frame draws me.

Someone will get a bargain.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super












jdawginsc is offline  
Likes For jdawginsc:
Old 03-07-23, 09:19 AM
  #19  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
jdawginsc Thank you for your compliments, it is indeed a beautiful frameset.

Accordingly, I am dropping the price to $279 + shipping. I really just need to move this on to its new home!
heidelbergensis is offline  
Likes For heidelbergensis:
Old 03-13-23, 11:03 AM
  #20  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
BUMP! Any takers at $225?
heidelbergensis is offline  
Old 03-19-23, 05:48 PM
  #21  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
Bump!
heidelbergensis is offline  
Old 03-20-23, 04:39 PM
  #22  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
Any takers at $200 without the headset?
heidelbergensis is offline  
Old 04-03-23, 09:21 AM
  #23  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
BUMP - price is now $200 sans headset.
heidelbergensis is offline  
Old 05-23-23, 08:38 PM
  #24  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 141

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
BUMP! Still available at last price!
heidelbergensis is offline  
Old 05-27-23, 01:56 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,493

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 260 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4302 Post(s)
Liked 5,749 Times in 3,348 Posts
A bit small and waaayy to far away, if only you were only a couple hundred miles away.
merziac is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.