I have to say this - I am just sick and tired of people, like us, telling others to drill out a frame, or paint a frame, or what ever that CANNOT be returned to original state!

Yes, the bicycle does belong to someone, so he, or she, can do as they please, with the bike. Sure, it might be an entry level bicycle, but so what? Yes, it might be suffering in the cosmetic department, but so what? Every time someone paints an old road bicycle, it becomes lost! Lost..?

You bet, lost! Sure, you might not think the bicycle to be worth much, due to its entry level status, but so what? Why do some of us spout the, "its your bicycle, do as you wish" argument?

Do your best to allow newbies to understand that anything change, to a vintage bicycle, that is not irreversible, is not wise! Yes, the bike is theirs. Yes, it might look better painted, or what ever. But once those irreversible changes are made, THERE IS NO GOING BACK! It matters not if the change is paint, or upgrading, or what ever. It it can't be put back to original, then think carefully before DOING IT!

This sentiment goes for the Drillium crowd also!

Look at all the "what bike is this" threads, and those threads are started because the bicycle, in question, has been painted. Sooner or later, all the vintage bicycles, or nearly all, will not be original, and possibly because of some of the advice being offered here, by fellow forum members.

So, the bottom line for me, is preserve original! Let the fools, who know no better, paint and grind away. But let us, those who know vintage bicycles, help to protect what is left.

I implore you all to help preserve the old bicycles!

like

Because it's their bike.

Except for the tiny handful of historically significant machines in OEM condition out there they are Just Old Bicycles, of no particular value or interest whatever.

The horde of utterly insignificant models we see time and again in garage sales and "what's this worth" are not a rare endangered class of mechanical-dodo but utterly common old junky bikes gathering dust to appear now as "Vintage" for absurd $ on your local CL. If every one listed on CL was relegated to the crusher today a plethora would appear on CL tomorrow: no less junky, uninteresting, worthless and un-rideable.

Who cares, other than the Period Correct Police?

-Bandera

I think the prevailing consensus is that preservation is better unless the original finish is a lost cause or there's a decision to modernize the components to get more use out of a bike (personally, I keep bins for each of my keeper bikes and any original parts are stored if I ever upgrade/replace original parts).

Your own blog was very helpful when I first began restoring bikes in terms of painting techniques. You have done some excellent, though irreversible, touch-up paint jobs yourself. I know might say that's not the same as what you are talking about, but there are others who say patina needs to be preserved and what you have done and prescribed to others is an equal sin. I don't agree, but the point is there are lots of gray areas and a lot of variables to consider.

But I never condone drewing. Do lawyer lips count as drewing? I'm okay with that. But never derailleur hangers. Maybe modify a derailleur hanger. Depends...

I think that is what you did not intend to say.

I do not want to live in a world without drillium!

Let me Google something for you "Bicycle museums in America"

As you can see there are plenty of professional preservationist preserving our cycling heritage. Believe it or not... I've heard that most of the grand old penny-farthings are still around.

And locally.... the Wright Brothers were famous Midwestern bicycle makers before they turned their talents to airplane inventing. They got RICH making some of Americas best "safety" bicycles. Back then... it took a year of a good craftsman's wages to buy a bike. They were rich peoples toys! The brothers only made about 200... and every one can be accounted for. Most are in museums... some are in private collections.

I don't worry about our bicycle heritage being lost to new paint jobs.

I have one of these devices.
A guest at a house party saw it in the kitchen and asked if I used it to make toast.

She appeared to be more or less sane and reasonably sober so I told her that "Yes indeed" I used my toaster to (of all things) make toast on a regular basis.
I also added that I had replaced the old frayed un-safe appliance cord w/ a UL approved version and plug.

I was then informed that I had "ruined it's value" and given The Look suitable for a person who drowns kittens in the punch bowl at parties.
I was under the impression that to me it's value was the quality of toast that it reliably produces while looking like an artifact from Buck Rodger's kitchen.
The alteration to prevent an electrical fire seemed reasonable at the time, however mis-guided.

Apparently there is Society For The Preservation of Sunbeam Toasters that I was unaware of, perhaps a similar organization can be started for: The Preservation of Un-altered Old Un-Interesting Bicycles. A large abandoned warehouse or dairy barn in a remote Northern area could be tastefully heaped with suitable bicycles determined to be in OEM knick, but Old.

-Bandera

On the flip side, there are many people who like old things that look and work like new things.
It's not like we are taking the Hope diamond and grinding it up to make drill bits....

It's true! I know I like to "save" an old bicycle as a winter project. This years off season... I reconditioned two... great old ten speeds (12spds) with DT shifters. I kept them original and made them pretty again.

This argument seems unfounded in my estimation. Whenever someone makes a "should I repaint?" thread, regardless of newbieness, the vast majority of the responses say to clean up/touch up the paint instead of repaint. I can only think of a few instances where most people said to repaint, and those were either frames that had been repainted previously or in such horrible shape that a repaint would be wise if just to cover up the exposed metal.

What on earth are you on about?

Literally every time someone asks about painting, people remind them that paint is only original once. Likewise, they are reminded that you can't undrill a frame. And I have never even once seen someone advise hacking off a derailleur hanger or shifter bosses.

Your entire rant seems without cause to me.

And regardless, it *IS* their bike to do with as they wish.

Have you been into the rum again, Randy?

If you want to stop people from repainting bikes, tell them to have kids. I ain't got time for that stuff anymore, I just want to ride now.

I chiseled off the single Simplex downtube shift lever boss on my UO-8, which now has SunTour ratchet barcons. Likewise, I have never regretted that the first owner of my PKN-10 knocked off the Simplex bosses, where I now have bolt-on SunTour downtube levers. I am, of course, very glad he left the Simplex derailleur hanger intact, particularly since this one supports both Simplex and SunTour derailleurs.

Not to go off on a tangent or be contradictory, but according to the Smithsonian, only five bicycles built by the Wright brothers are known to exist today.

And to get back on topic, I really appreciated seeing one of those five in original condition at the National Air & Space Museum. It's rare and historically significant, so it deserves to be preserved for generations to appreciate. On the other hand, Peugeot must've made over a million UO-8's. They're neither rare nor historically significant. Mine is getting a lot more appreciation now than it would have in an unaltered state.

I consider myself to be a preservationist, but it has to be weighed against practicality.

Nice collection!
Sunbeam Radiant Control: the Chrome Schwinn P-15 Paramount of toasters.....

https://www.automaticbeyondbelief.org/

-Bandera

I grew up with a Toastmaster 3-slice Powermatic!

Say what? Is this true?

I just spent way to much money for a new Simplex rear derailleur,
because I thought I would have to modify the Simplex drop outs,
to use my Suntour VGT Lux, that I had on the work bench
and actually like better.

that only works until they want you to paint a bike for them....... at least in my experience

Hmm, you could argue that they are historically significant because Peugeot made so many of them! They are iconic, the ultimate representation of the early 70's bike boom. But like the original VW Beetle, few people actually want to own one now as a "real car", let alone keep one in NOS condition. Modify 'em, make em' into hot rods, ride 'em. I ride mine and I hot rod'ed it.

I find this a difficult subject. It hurts me to see nice vintage frames mutilated, but on the other hand it's great to see bikes that have been hanging in the rafters for thirty years being ridden again.

I sold a Koga-Miyata frame that I'd saved from the dump, but wasn't doing anything with, to a colleague, who made it into this. I really, really enjoyed seeing it back on the road after having spent twenty-five years in a shed:

I tell people "Of COURSE you shouldn't paint or alter your old bike, never do that. It's only Ok when I do that sort of thing."

But seriously, if just some old clunker with beat-to-death paint, why the hell not paint it? Or drew it. Or whatever. You're taking something that has no value to anyone but anal retentive nerds and having a little fun with it.

My favorite bicycle to modify is the Raleigh Super Course. They came with mostly crappy parts, so from a functional point of view, there's no reason to retain that crap. From an historic point of view, they don't have any real historic value in their original states. Modify away, I say.

I've been commuting on a ca 1970 Falcon that has no original parts and very doubtful paint. The last two winters have been unkind and while I have treated the bike respectfully I have not been especially easy on it. It needs a lot of things and soon. And it needs paint.
I have found a head badge for it. I have designed appropriate decals that look right but won't fool an expert. It's gonna look good.
Once I have the existing paint off, there are some random doodahs brazed to the frame that are only getting in my way. I think they're gonna have to go. They serve no purpose. They will interfere with my wet sanding the frame between coats of paint. Eff 'em.

While I'm at it, it's going to be really tempting to modify some other frame details.

I try to be part of the solution. But sometimes I can't help myself and become part of the problem. Oh, well.

I painted my Cannondale Criterium Series and refuse to put the available and correct decals on it. However, any Cannondale lover or educated C&V enthusiast could easily tell by looking at those dents in the chainstay.

One way to look at drilling, drewing, repainting or whatnot is that, if one does it him/herself, it serves as a learning experience. There are billions of bikes in the world - I don't think this relatively small group is making even a small dent in that population - seriously.

Think of it like the young guys/gals in high school who took that car and hopped it up into their own expression of automotive individuality. Think of the mechanical aptitude gained in changing something from its original guise into a personal ride.

I don't see an issue. So every once in awhile a frame comes up that can't be identified? Quick, call the police

We have to stop thinking inside the box here and understand that they're just bikes, mkay?

My .02 and worth every penny.

DD