Setback?
#26
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,811
Likes: 1,788
From: Northern California
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
As far as the stem/bars positioning, I would expect the bike to have a most flighty steering response with such height and with such little offset from the sterer.
As for an extreme rearward saddle, this precludes the possibility of easily moving to a stand-and-lean-forward riding position, as might be needed for steeper inclines, and so increases the likelihood of knee strain and injury. So it's suitable only for relatively level ground.
Advantages are that it matches the handlebar positioning for an upright position that would suit riding in traffic. Also that it might improve climbing traction where an extremely slippery surface happened to exist. But again, unsuitable for steep climbing imo.
As for an extreme rearward saddle, this precludes the possibility of easily moving to a stand-and-lean-forward riding position, as might be needed for steeper inclines, and so increases the likelihood of knee strain and injury. So it's suitable only for relatively level ground.
Advantages are that it matches the handlebar positioning for an upright position that would suit riding in traffic. Also that it might improve climbing traction where an extremely slippery surface happened to exist. But again, unsuitable for steep climbing imo.
#27
Thread Starter
Cyclotouriste


Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,784
Likes: 6,995
From: South Holland, NL
Bikes: Yes, please.
Level ground is just about alle we've got here. I plan to take it for a spin tomorrow. I'll report back on how it feels.
#29
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 117
Likes: 1
From: Ontario Canada
Bikes: mostly old steel 70's 80's 90's
I dont know about the bars but all my bikes seem to fit best with alot of setback,
I'm using a seatpost very similar to this one on a bike with a Brooks B17 because the short saddle rails don't allow for much setback adjustment. I use bullhorn bars with this setup. Every BODY is different and on that bike it just works for me.
I'm using a seatpost very similar to this one on a bike with a Brooks B17 because the short saddle rails don't allow for much setback adjustment. I use bullhorn bars with this setup. Every BODY is different and on that bike it just works for me.
#30
Senior Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 97
Bikes: Working on replacing my stolen Soma Buena Vista Mixte
I dont know about the bars but all my bikes seem to fit best with alot of setback,
I'm using a seatpost very similar to this one on a bike with a Brooks B17 because the short saddle rails don't allow for much setback adjustment. I use bullhorn bars with this setup. Every BODY is different and on that bike it just works for me.
I'm using a seatpost very similar to this one on a bike with a Brooks B17 because the short saddle rails don't allow for much setback adjustment. I use bullhorn bars with this setup. Every BODY is different and on that bike it just works for me.
#31
Thread Starter
Cyclotouriste


Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,784
Likes: 6,995
From: South Holland, NL
Bikes: Yes, please.
The seatpost is a Sakae Ringyo MTE-100 post, intended for off-road use. The adjustable setback was to allow riders to move the seat back for better control on steep downhills. It didn't catch on all that well, and was only in production for a couple years.
While I'm at it, I might as well show some other details that may be of interest to future visitors of this thread.
The dropouts are Huret, but the fork ends are more mundane:


The frame has brazed-on cable guides for full-length shifter cable housing:

Last edited by non-fixie; 12-14-20 at 10:39 AM. Reason: restored links to pictures
#32
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 17,196
Likes: 761
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
I think also the term "randonneur" has several different usages, one focused on long-distance road riding, and the other on the concept of just wandering with a perhaps vague endpoint in mind, as I see it. Equipment in the second mindset is more like the Stevens bike (a trekker?), and like a classic Singer, a Boulder, or custom Weigels in the first mindset.
#33
Thread Starter
Cyclotouriste


Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,784
Likes: 6,995
From: South Holland, NL
Bikes: Yes, please.
I just did a first ride on this Union, and that was interesting. It is a true cross-over. It feels and rides like a town bike, with relaxed angles and upright riding position. But it does have the advantages of the drop bars with multiple hand positions, and one can ride in the drops without body parts getting in the way.
It's to an Alex Singer or René Herse what the Nissan Quashqai is to a Landrover Defender or Jeep Wrangler.
Which doesn't mean it's bad. Far from it. It's comfortable, it feels very solid, the Shimano deerhead stuff is excellent and the stem-mounted ratcheting thumbies are really nice.
I can see how this might have appealed to a certain audience. If you're new to drop bars and derailleurs this is a nice first bike to try them out on.
These are nice:
It's to an Alex Singer or René Herse what the Nissan Quashqai is to a Landrover Defender or Jeep Wrangler.
Which doesn't mean it's bad. Far from it. It's comfortable, it feels very solid, the Shimano deerhead stuff is excellent and the stem-mounted ratcheting thumbies are really nice.
I can see how this might have appealed to a certain audience. If you're new to drop bars and derailleurs this is a nice first bike to try them out on.
These are nice:
Last edited by non-fixie; 12-14-20 at 10:34 AM. Reason: restored link to picture
#34
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,811
Likes: 1,788
From: Northern California
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
Wow, great shifters! Unishift iir, not ratcheting. A true retrofriction design. That's a clever installation that tempts me to use such a pricey set for, but I've got to save my set for a StumpJumper build.
#35
Thread Starter
Cyclotouriste


Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,784
Likes: 6,995
From: South Holland, NL
Bikes: Yes, please.
I hadn't realized beforehand, but the very short bar stem puts them at your finger tips, which suddenly makes stem shifters a logical proposition.
#36
Thread Starter
Cyclotouriste


Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,784
Likes: 6,995
From: South Holland, NL
Bikes: Yes, please.
Found another one, recently for sale in Germany. Thought I'd update this thread for reference purposes.


#38
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 242
Likes: 89
From: Arnhem NL
Bikes: Might as well, now that I am here...
Cool bike.
My daughter has a Union bike, 4 speed. Forgot the name atm. That bike also has a double stand... Or had, I replaced it with a more normal one. The old one was quite a bit anodized and too stiff for a 12 yo.
If you dont mind you can send me a link through pm. Curious what a bike like that will go for, and from where in (D). I'm not too far from the border...
My daughter has a Union bike, 4 speed. Forgot the name atm. That bike also has a double stand... Or had, I replaced it with a more normal one. The old one was quite a bit anodized and too stiff for a 12 yo.
If you dont mind you can send me a link through pm. Curious what a bike like that will go for, and from where in (D). I'm not too far from the border...
#39
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,811
Likes: 1,788
From: Northern California
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
This is a holy-sh** moment for me, suddenly finding out where Grant may have found his inspiration!
As for the short stem extension favoring stem shifters, Schwinn seems to be the first to have made shifter mounts that positioned the shift levers ahead of the stem quill axis (Suntour later offered long stem shift levers with brackets for either ahead of or behind the stem quill axis).
The forward-offset Twin-Stik levers are the bomb for use with a racing-length stem:
As for the short stem extension favoring stem shifters, Schwinn seems to be the first to have made shifter mounts that positioned the shift levers ahead of the stem quill axis (Suntour later offered long stem shift levers with brackets for either ahead of or behind the stem quill axis).
The forward-offset Twin-Stik levers are the bomb for use with a racing-length stem:
#40
Thread Starter
Cyclotouriste


Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,784
Likes: 6,995
From: South Holland, NL
Bikes: Yes, please.
Cool bike.
My daughter has a Union bike, 4 speed. Forgot the name atm. That bike also has a double stand... Or had, I replaced it with a more normal one. The old one was quite a bit anodized and too stiff for a 12 yo.
If you dont mind you can send me a link through pm. Curious what a bike like that will go for, and from where in (D). I'm not too far from the border...
My daughter has a Union bike, 4 speed. Forgot the name atm. That bike also has a double stand... Or had, I replaced it with a more normal one. The old one was quite a bit anodized and too stiff for a 12 yo.
If you dont mind you can send me a link through pm. Curious what a bike like that will go for, and from where in (D). I'm not too far from the border...

#41
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 1
Likes: 1
I have this one as well and it seems to have the same setup (adjustable seatpost, high stem). I bought it in the Netherlands in the summer of 2017 for around 60€. Seller told me the bike had spent most of its lifetime in the garage, so I guess most of the parts are original.
Unfortunately, some vandal kicked the mount for the brake from the front fork, so the next project is finding a replacement fork that fits. Any ideas where to find one? I just created an account here, so I can't share a picture of it.
Unfortunately, some vandal kicked the mount for the brake from the front fork, so the next project is finding a replacement fork that fits. Any ideas where to find one? I just created an account here, so I can't share a picture of it.
#42
Thread Starter
Cyclotouriste


Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,784
Likes: 6,995
From: South Holland, NL
Bikes: Yes, please.
I have this one as well and it seems to have the same setup (adjustable seatpost, high stem). I bought it in the Netherlands in the summer of 2017 for around 60€. Seller told me the bike had spent most of its lifetime in the garage, so I guess most of the parts are original.
Unfortunately, some vandal kicked the mount for the brake from the front fork, so the next project is finding a replacement fork that fits. Any ideas where to find one? I just created an account here, so I can't share a picture of it.
Unfortunately, some vandal kicked the mount for the brake from the front fork, so the next project is finding a replacement fork that fits. Any ideas where to find one? I just created an account here, so I can't share a picture of it.
See if you can upload some pictures to your profile album. If so, other members can publish them here.
WRT the fork: replacements can be found at the various swap meets and jumble sales. Note the length of the steerer you need. Be sure to share it here, as local members may be able to assist.








