unworthy1

rather than play guessing games: how about pix of the actual damaged Stronglight (A-9, B-10 or Delta) HS parts so we can try to offer replacements. From your description of a needle-bearing HS that Stronglight Competition lock nut is NOT the one you want. The alloy top nut (for these 3 model HS) will probably be much cheaper plus more common, but the top cup could be a bit harder to find.

Porschefan

Makes sense....I'm obviously very new at this. I'll dig out the pieces and take some pix. Thanks!

STP

unworthy1

My apologies for being short with a newbie, but pictures are worth a lot of wasted time.
I may have a spare Stronglight A-9 locknut in my spares collection and it's the same (or close enough) as used on the other needle-bearing models (B-10 which had plastic/alloy hybrid cups and Delta which had deeper more "sculptured" alloy cups). So pics of the cups will answer which model you have.
A-9:
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...m=111&AbsPos=0
B-10:
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...m=111&AbsPos=3
Delta:
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...m=111&AbsPos=6
pics courtesy of VeloBase

Porschefan

No worries. I just haven't had time to take pix yet. Will post ASAP.

One of the races for the needle bearings in the headset is missing--I think it got lost at the shop. So it may just be easiest to get another new headset?

Anyway, I appreciate all the help and don't worry about asking me to provide whatever is needed in order to facilitate that.

More later.

STP

Porschefan

I think I see the confusion.... Those pix are of "replacement" lock nuts (or what I thought are replacements). The original locknut is chewed up (pix to come). It is very light alloy and you can hardly even see the the "Stronglight" on it now. Due to missing a bearing race (lost? dropped?) it may be best to just replace the headset???

STP

Bandera

With the Vitus framesets removing/re-installing HS cups & cones only when necessary is a good idea, search for the missing bearing race 1st.

-Bandera

Oldpeddaller

Hi Bandera - is this because the head tube of the frame is so 'lightly engineered' (relatively flimsy)??? I'm going to have to replace the headset on my Vitus 979 soon - removing Campagnolo Chorus and replacing with NOS alloy Campagnolo Record (in unopened box). What's the risk here - is it removing and replacing the cups in the frame? If so, probably a job for my LBS - I've got a cup removal tool and a basic threaded head set press but no reamers or facing tools.

Chombi

I never heard of any particular problems with replacing headsets more than a few tims on Vitus 979 frames. The one piece aluminum headstock is quite strong IMO, especially if compared to the multi-piece assemblies on bikes like ALANs which do have a history of cracking on owners at the head lugs.....

Oldpeddaller

Thanks Chombi, that's helpful - very reassuring. I think I must have been thinking of the reports I'd read about the (similar in many respects) bonded ALAN frames when the alarm bells started ringing in my brain. I'll try to do it myself but take it steady and be ready to run the whole bike into the LBS if it starts to get difficult.

Bandera

@Oldpeddaller,

The AL material of the frame is quite soft compared to the steel frames of the era and will not tolerate any imprecision or ham-handed brute force.
We never had milling or alignment problems back when these were new, QA/QC and packing were quite good. Milling/facing should not be required if the frame has given good service thus far.
The proper tools deftly used as infrequently as possible HS replacement will be no problem.
Since I longer have a Campy toolkit I'll take mine to the only shop, a one man operation who is thoroughly familiar w/ C&V hardware, to be replaced w/ the exact same NOS Dura Ace model it sports now when this one is done for.

The 979 frames were the go-to for road racing by light experienced riders in the era but will not tolerate abuse, cloddish riders or inept mechanics very well.

-Bandera

unworthy1

personally, I think the needle-bearing Stronglights are among the best HS ever made (tho NOT the B-10, only 'cause the plastic in that model doesn't hold up) so if all you need is one of the "races" (stamped steel rings that fit above and below each needle bearing cage) and a locknut to put in back in service, I'd do that rather than buy a new complete HS.
just my humble opinion and YRMV.

Chombi

Agree about the B10 headsets. I've seen them with badly cracked and chipped up Delrin cups. Once the cups on he B10 turns that greyish dried up look, they are ticking timebombs for a near future Delrin asplosion......
Only thing that wears out on an A9 significantly is the top locknut, and that's only if the owner is not so careful when he/she adjusts the headset and round out the falts on the nut.. Otherwise, the needle bearings and races don't really wear out, as the wieght and shock is so evenly distributed on the needle bearings.in I suspect a bigger area than what is provided by ball bearings.
Stronglight did comeo ut with a new version of the A9 using sealed cartridges with ball bearings in it. I have one on one of my bikes and it seems to be holding up pretty good so far, after almost 4 years of use. I don't think it will last as long as the needle bearinged A9 on my Peugeot PSV though, that has been working well since 1984, when I got the bike.

Porschefan

Still looking--see below.

Hey, you talkin' to ME....

OK at the risk of revealing even more ineptness, here's an update so far. It's embarrassing, but to learn is sometimes painful. I'll post pix below.

1. The race is still missing and I haven't made it over to the shop to search for it myself. After looking at what feels like a zillion pictures of Stronglight A9 headsets, I'm thinking that I may be missing another part, whose name I don't know, but corresponds to the pic of the rounded black piece below? I may be entirely wrong though.

2. Panicking about the missing race I found and ordered THESE. Complete NOS set of the needle bearings and races. The website shows only one set, but you get two for $21.50. They said they only had a few left so I ordered. So this may or may not be a good buy.

3. I found modern Stronglight A9 headsets on eBay for as low as $24.00. A black one is pictured below. All things considered, it may end up being smarter to just get one of these.

So here are pix of everything I currently have from the headset and a pic of the sealed-bearing A9 on eBay.

Bunged up locknut. "Stronglight" imprinting now so faint it can't be seen in the photo.



Bunged up adjusting nut (if that's the right term):



Two needles bearings, THREE races (missing one larger one), a spacer of some sort (?). All these parts, except for spacer, can be replaced with the bearing kit from Ben's Cycles.



Group shot: locknut and adjusting nut along with the rounded black piece, which I'm thinking should have a mate, but not sure about.



Pic of a black sealed-bearing A9 on eBay. For some reason an identical silver-colored one on the Bay is about 2X the price.



The plus point is that the overall frame is looking quite nice--compared to some of the examples on eBay, I would say that it's a winner and everything should clean up and go together nicely.

So that's the news current news from Lake Woebegone. Thanks for all the pointers and great info.

STP

Chombi

I believe that the black one on your pic is actually a steel version of the A9 headset. I'm sure it is a good quality headset and maybe much more rugged than the A9, but it will not be as light as the A9, which was one of it's big features....

Porschefan

Chombi,

Look what I found!

Same place (Ben's Cycles) that had the needle bearing set. NOS. I'm not sure I like the black and I'm not sure whether it would be a good fit and, if I don't keep the bike, it's kind of pricey from a resale point of view. But it does look nice and it's good to know it's an option.

STP

unworthy1

I think you have a B-10 headset, which I'm afraid is not one worth keeping IMHO, but that's your call. It may work fine for a while but eventually the plastic cups (which are Delrin) will degrade and break. That said, the replacement bearing sets that Ben's sells are ALL you need for a complete rebuild of any A-9, B-10 or (AFAIK) Delta as it has 2 bearing.cages and the races (steel rings) that fit in/out or above/below the cages. Plus that's a good price, too, I hadn't seen him have those in stock for some time so buy now if you need 'em cause there may be a long dry spell.
The most important thing you need to determine is if your 1" HS has Metric (French) or Imperial (British, ISO, Italian, whatever) threading and stem quill dimensions, since Stronglight made BOTH types. If you can't measure the stuff yourself (do you have the tools?) get this to a shop or friend who can help you...it ain't rocket science but you have to have a little experience and some tools or try-on parts.
This you need to know before you buy any replacement parts or stems.
Back to the B-10: it looks like in addition to the mangled alloy top nut the top CUP which was a plastic cup attached to an alloy "ring" nut which has the threading, has been bunged up and has also separated from the plastic half...so you should replace that top cup too IF you want to keep the "original" HS...if you already bought the bearing set, I might suggest to (first determine the threading that fits your fork steerer and stem diameter) find a A-9 with either bad or missing bearings and install that with the new bearings. Stack height should be about the same as your B-10 (but check me on that) and you'd be set for a long time.
Best of luck!

Chombi

Yup, that's the same stem, only in black anodized finish this time. It quite pricey for what it is, as similar or same NOS ITM stems without any pantographing might only sell for about half of what Ben's is pricing this one at. But if you are keeping the bike for yourself and love the way it rides and an 80cm stem extension will fit you, this stem is treat that could be worth the money they are asking for it, as I don't think there's many left out there to find. I the last 5 some years I had been watching out for Vitus bikes and components out there, I think this is only the second one I have seen in addition to mine. so mauch rarer than pantograph stems for bikes like Cinellis and Colnagos....or even Titans.....

Porschefan

Thanks very much for this response. I feel like the fog is starting to lift a bit! Specific points/questions below.

I did order the bearing kit as soon as I found it, being afraid that the missing race would never turn up and figuring that it was worth the $23 as insurance in any case. In a way, I'm glad to hear the that the B10 isn't really worth saving--I can just move forward now.

Do you know how likely it would be to find an A9 in need of rebuilding? Or would you have any recommendations for something other than the A9, or a Stronglight, for that matter? I don't mind eating the cost of the bearing set and I could either save it or sell it later--not a big deal in any case.

I've been assured by the friend who helped get the stem out, and who has a lot of experience working on bikes, that the steerer post is 1.0" and ENGLISH threaded. He also told me the dimensions of the quill stem and handlebars, but I don't recall them right now. I have a digital caliper at home and can measure them and report back.

Got it. So that points back to the question of finding an A9 Stronglight headset or looking for something else. My friend--whom I'll have to rely on to assemble it--assures me that any 1.0" English threaded headset can be fitted.

My role on this project has been to buy the bike, clean parts, get the frame all spruced up, find and order parts and "help" and/or be supervised putting things back together with the idea of learning as I go. I'm trying to minimize his time in order to not get the project completely upside down.

Thanks again for the (much-needed) help!

STP

Porschefan

Yes, I was surprised to run across it. And it does look great--even in black. My current Trek Domane has an 80cm stem--but I don't know how that translates to the Vitus geometry. Maybe get an inexpensive Nitto to start with.

Another question--did Vitus 979's of this type have headbadges or decals? I've seen pix with both. This bike has nothing on the head tube at all.

STP

Chombi

AS sold by Vitus, these 979s didn't have headbadges but they also sold to retailers that did add in their headbadges (decals) one being Jan Janssen in Europe and the other I know with a headbadge were the 979s sold by Mike Fraysse under the "Ets. Fraysse" or "F - USA" name fromn the east coast.
Peugeot also included a Vitus 979 in their lineup in the mid 80's that I think had a Peugeot lion decal on its headstock.

Porschefan

I think that's one of the pix I saw. According the guy I bought this from, he bought it as a bare frame and so all the parts were just purchased and installed by him: crankset is Superbe Pro. Derailleurs and brakes are Dura-Ace.

STP

Bandera

On mine headtube-gizmo = N, Frame Transfers = Y.

I did sport "Hello Kitty" stickers on mine as a tribute to my 979 riding training partner who shall always be deferentially deferred to as "The Pixie From Hell".

-Bandera

Porschefan

Here's the link to the eBay item.

Seller has only one feedback as a seller and five overall. Seems to have an eBay store with lots of vintage stuff.

These A9's seem to be virtually non-existent in all the places I've looked so far. Too good to be true?

I'm seeing Miche Primato needle-bearing headsets being talked about as replacements for Stronglight A9's, but I haven't been able to determine whether they are English threaded.

STP

raymond1354

It's called galvanic corrosion - diifferent metals in contact with each other have a small electric potential between them which causes corrosion (see Statue of Liberty).

r

Chombi

The Miche Primato headset on my ALAN Carbonio is English threaded..... it's been working great on my bike for about three years now. No reason for me to think that it will not last as long as my Stronglight A9s...